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Back From China, Tesla has long way to go in China Still...

Discussion in 'Model X: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by ModelXBoy, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. ModelXBoy

    ModelXBoy No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!

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    Just came back from my business trip over in Shenzhen China. The electric car industry in China is still in its infancy. Infrastructure is not there yet. No one even considering to buy a Model X even they can afford it. People who are buying this price range of SUV choose Range Rover land rover, X6 M class, X5 M class, Benz GL450 AMG etc. Not one person i talked to want an all electric Model X. Primary reason is the problem with charging, there is no way to charge the car any where in the city. People also do not own houses, so there is no way to install charger in their apartment for now. Tesla still has a long way to go in China but good news is people do know about Tesla and are thinking about buying one when super charger is more readily available.

    I did find one Model S near our business location. I took a pic to share with everyone here!
     

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  2. vandacca

    vandacca Active Member

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    That's true what you write, but at the same time, most Chinese cities have transitioned from gas-powered scooters/bikes to electric. I was impressed with the number of electric motor bikes/scooters. Only city I saw that still had mostly gas-powered bikes was Yangshuo in the south.
     
  3. UnitaryExecutive

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    I think lack of superchargers is only a part of the story. When I was in Vancouver, there were tons of luxury cars and I asked my wife, who grew up there, why there weren't more Teslas (there were plenty of Porsches, Audis, Mercedes, and other really high end brands). Her response was that Asians are ostentatious and buy for brand recognition and to appear rich. They don't buy a Tesla because others don't know it costs a lot of money.

    It's a different story for 2nd generation Canadian born Asians who really love Tesla and all want one. I think this is probably the same in China where a lot of the younger generation love the brand and want one but can't afford a MS or MX and the older generation doesn't recognize it as an expensive brand.
     
  4. Atlantis

    Atlantis Member

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    Do you mean that people who have the incomes to buy such high-end cars don't have a garage to put them and let them in the street during night for example?
     
  5. ModelXBoy

    ModelXBoy No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!

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    Yeah. Either on the street or in underground parking. China is apartment driving country, not enough place to build houses. People who have houses do not live near the city, which is not convenient for them to go to work etc. So rich people will buy expensive apartments or condos to be close to the city. Therefore building superchargers at their apartments are very difficult.
     
  6. DougH

    DougH Active Member

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    LMAO
     
  7. electricity

    electricity Member

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    Isnt that the case with every bently buyer? Cars are ugly AF.
     
  8. DougH

    DougH Active Member

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    Id buy one if I could afford it.

    My post of LMAO was because a friend of mine that is Asian said "that is so true, yet we shop at Outlet Malls and wear outlet mall clothes and we think it's cool"

    just made me laugh.
     
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  9. glenhurst

    glenhurst Member

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    I think there's even a bit of this in Americans: My observation of the people queued up to put down deposits for the Model 3 on Mar. 31 was that the average age was about 30. I think many/most people in my age bracket (50s) don't have the imagination to envision electric cars becoming common place. So, if they have enough money to indulge in expensive cars, they often go for Merc/BMW/Audi/Lexus/etc. OTOH, the 30-year-old crowd can imagine a world of EVs, and the Tesla is the poster child gadget for that. But when Model 3 starts shipping, it will be the one to turn heads, not the expensive ICEs.
     
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  10. Niko0519

    Niko0519 Member

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    As a Chinese, thats true.
     
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  11. ev365

    ev365 New Member

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    In Shanghai and Beijing, Tesla is having good market penetration and gaining popularity among the younger generation. In fact, just within the city of Shanghai, there are more than 10 Tesla supercharging locations - one location has 12 charging stations (and is usually quite busy throughout the day). In some major cities, the local government is offering free license plates to EV and plugin hybrid cars (including Tesla) and that incentive can be as high as $12k USD (cost of a Shanghai plate). Charging is really not that big of an issue, many Tesla owners have chargers installed in their high rise apartment garages. The real reason why Tesla is not as popular as in the States is because of the brand recognition and to a lesser degree cost. Chinese luxury car buyers still have a higher preference towards the German brands at the same price point.
     
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  12. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    #12 ggnykk, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    There are actually a couple of superchargers in Shenzhen. But other than that, I agree with the rest of your comment.

    Secondly, car market in most Asian cities are VERY different from western cities. Owning a private car in vast majority of cases is NOT a necessity because public transportation like subway and bus are very efficient and well developed. Considering buying the same car in Asia easily cost 2-3 times more than in western countries, buying a car is less about going from point A to point B. It has everything to do with showing off your wealth and as an instant status symbol, so that people look up to you. The more expensive your car gets, the more desire for people to buy it. Vast majority of Asian society values money and fame extremely high, even more than the most materialistic cities that you can find in the western world. If you are not rich or famous, people treat you like crap in Asia and definitely won't be respected. Depending on your perspective, you can call Asian people shallow, or dark side of humanity or the result of capitalism.

    In my opinion, it is very difficult for Tesla to be successful, at least not in the luxury segment, until Tesla fix the interior. It has to match the interior luxury and quality of Germany big 3. Also, Tesla's plan to create a factory in China to avoid the Chinese import tax will most likely back-fire. A cheaper Tesla most likely will NOT generate more demand in China. If the average joe on the street can get a Tesla, it just won't be perceived as a premium brand. You have to understand that owning a private car in China is extremely expensive for the average joe in China. In most cases, only the top 10% of the society can afford to buy a car. Obviously, rich people won't buy a cheap (or non-expensive) Tesla to show off their wealth and power.

    Tesla is mostly an environmental/green company. Given that Chinese awareness of being green is still extremely low relative to the western world. Chinese wouldn't have care less about green if they have a choice between projecting an image of green or an image of wealth/power. Tesla is way better off to setup the 2nd factory in Europe than in China, imo.
     
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  13. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    Actually, most Asian cities are heavily apartment driven. Population density is on par with NYC or higher in most Asian cities.
     
  14. ModelXBoy

    ModelXBoy No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!

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    Totally agree. Setting up a factory to build Tesla cars in China is a bad decision. The more expensive the car gets, the more people in China are willing to pay for it. If BMW cost the same as they are in the states, no one wants them. In China you can purchase a BMW M3 that is almost equivalent in cost to a Model X P90D here in the states. A mini cooper in China costs almost the same as a X5. You do the math, the 2 and half times of the US cost pushes many luxury brands to the next level. There are many ways to show off your wealth in China, cars are definitely in the top 3. If cars are not expensive, people in China will move to the next luxury items immediately. It's a process that China is still going through, going from poor to wealthy in China happened too quick. Many people are still enjoying their sudden boost in wealth, unlike people here in the states who already went through the showing off stage.
     
  15. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    As an Asian who has lived half of my life in Asia and half in America, what is really happening is that Asian people want to use the least amount of money to buy things that appear to be the most luxury or project the most wealth or power. It is almost a competition in the society and among friends on who is (or at least appear to be) the most successful in their life/career. Money and image is everything. These kind of thinking and values appear in other culture and western society in certain extent, but no where near the severity in Asian culture.
     
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  16. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    Yup, totally agree. What's funny is that the wealth of rich people in China are extremely dependent on the housing market, as well as the value of shares they own in the Chinese stock market. A stock market that is extremely over-valued, rigged and corrupted. And a housing market that is in a bubble territory for years. It is basically just "paper wealth" that will evaporate easily once the bubble burst in the housing and stock market.

    Just curious, what are the top 3 ways to show off wealth in China in your opinion? car, house, career?
     
  17. ModelXBoy

    ModelXBoy No More Door Captain of TMC! Oh Yeah Baby!

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    Top 3:
    1. Cars
    2. House
    3. Girls. (got be hot ones!), which equals to Money anywayz!
     
  18. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

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    that's right. haha
     
  19. K-MTG

    K-MTG Sunshade Captain of TMC

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    Did you tell them about your title as "Door Captain"
     
  20. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Active Member

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    Both Audi and BMW have factories in China - they even make special China models like the A4L/A6L (long versions with special executive rear seating). Local assembly could allow Tesla boosting their revenue (as duties would be less) while allowing easier local market need customization.

    I'm not sure if the second factory should first go to China on Europe, but I don't see why a factory in China would lessen Tesla's appeal. It certainly hasn't done that for the Germans.
     

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