TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Back to 242

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by rlawson4, May 21, 2013.

  1. rlawson4

    rlawson4 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Atlanta Georgia
    Well my car was service over the weekend. The fine people at the Atlanta Service Center had it plugged into a 110. I could tell on my tesla app. I had been stuck on 236/237 rated range for a month or so. On the 110 it magically charged to 242. When I got it home I plugged it into my 14-50 outlet and it charged to 242. I wonder if the long 48 hour charge on the 110 conditioned the battery. It too about 48 hours to charge from where it was at.
     
  2. deonb

    deonb Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,020
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    Interesting...

    Can someone else who is getting less than 240 try and reproduce this overnight?
     
  3. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    3,399
    Location:
    San Diego
    Yes, very interesting indeed. But it would probably have to be more than an overnight charge. The OP said two days.
     
  4. hvb

    hvb Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I used to only get 240 and occasionally 241 charging on a 14-50 at 40A. Once I started dialing it down to 20A, I got 242 all the time, sometimes even 243.
     
  5. FatSal

    FatSal Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    I also dial mine down to 12 amps on my 14-50 and I consistently see 242 in the morning. I was seeing high 230s at 40 amps, but I suspect that has more to do with vampire losses because it was charging so fast and then sitting until morning.
     
  6. rlawson4

    rlawson4 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Atlanta Georgia
    My 236/237 were not "vampired." I have charged mid-day and that's what I was getting. It will be interesting to see what I get tomorrow morning off my own 14-50.
     
  7. mcornwell

    mcornwell Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,016
    Location:
    USA
    After 5000 miles, I typically see 237 or 238 in the morning, charging off of a NEMA 14-50. I'm out of town, and have had the car on a 120 outlet for the past four days. I'll check the range via my phone app in the morning. I assume it tops off based on the scheduled charging? We're on the east coast this week, with the car on the west coast, so if I check it when I wake, it shouldn't have too much vampire drain.
     
  8. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,017
    Location:
    Greendale, Wisconsin
    Having worked with other non-vehicle lithium batteries, I will say in many cases a slow charge can provide more charge.
    What happens in my opinion, is with a quicker higher capacity charge, the "surface charge" (Higher Voltage reading due to the electricity not being absorbed quick enough into the battery) can result in a pre-mature shutdown of the charger, and a poorer reading of total state of charge.

    This is seen more with older lead acid batteries, but the larger the pack, the more noticeable it is.
    I can use a Lead Acid battery as a example.

    Car battery is "12 volts". Fully charged their about 12.8-13.2 volts depending on the specific type (flooded, Gel, AGM). Now, put it on a automatic charger (or any 12v charger for that matter), when that charger shuts off that the battery is full, the immediate reading is much higher then the normal maximum of 13.2. It could be as high as 15 volts for a short while.
    This higher voltage trips the "I'm Full" function of the charger. Now, left for a while, this extra power that has not fully absorbed is either absorbed, or disapated.

    That is one of the reasons that chargers taper off the charge amperage tword the end of a charge. It's called the absorption phase. Low current allowing a more accurate reading, more accurate reading allowing more power to get in the battery whenever possible.

    I know the MS lowers charge current when plugged into a high capacity outlet, though, not to the point that the slow current coming out of a 110/120 line would be.


    Hope that helps!
     
  9. rlawson4

    rlawson4 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Atlanta Georgia
    I was at 241 this morning after charging on the 14-50. It does appear that the slow charge a few days ago conditioned the battery. I report back as the days go by. I am at 12100 miles right now.
     
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,054
    Like islandbayy says might be the slower charging providing a more accurate SOC estimate so the charger can charge more fully.

    But given the results are repeatable when switching back to 14-50, I suspect it's more likely that the battery was better balanced after that slow charge on 110V. And it might not even have do with the 110V, but rather the long 48 hours plugged in.

    On the Roadster, if you leave the car plugged-in when charged on Standard Mode, it'll automatically engage battery balancing. The Model S might have something similar.
     
  11. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    Aptos, Ca
    I too have seen my range drop (getting a max of 234 on standard charge now). I'm wondering if this conditioning theory is correct, how scheduled charging factors in? I only started having this drop after switching to scheduled charging. Does having the charge timer on affect when it can condition?
     
  12. mdh

    mdh VIN 2747 P4679

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    118
    Location:
    Saratoga,CA
    I am in the same boat... will try!
     
  13. xradr

    xradr Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2013
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I had quite a similar experience. For the 1st 4000 miles, would regularly get to 242 - 244. Then for next 1000+ miles when charging, it would get 239 max. I took the charge down to about 10 miles left, and did a proper 90% charge on a NEMA 14-50 (instead of HPWC) and voila, back to 242-244. Wonder if there is indeed something to this "conditioning". I don't think it was vampire losses since I was physically there when the charge hit completed just to make sure ... but still got 239.

    I know a few roadster owners that have put 50K miles on it with no appreciable drop off in charge. I will try my best to be less neurotic about it ... but I guess that's just the good/bad part of being an earlier adopter. :wink:
     
  14. qphan79

    qphan79 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    33
    I tried to charge at 110v from 64 miles of rates range left on my 60kwh but saw no change..still getting a maxing 181 miles. The good news is that the degradation has seemed to taper off for now
     
  15. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    Aptos, Ca
    Now at 232 on 4.5. Sigh.
     
  16. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Old standard charge was 92% and now that notch corresponds to 90%. Could that be the difference you are seeing?
     
  17. Zextraterrestrial

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    3,636
    Location:
    Humboldt/Los Altos
    I just did 4.5 yesterday and my new full 90% charge was 232 this morning vs 242 for the 4.4 ~92% or so. the charge stops exactly at 90% now not over the line like it did before
     
  18. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    1,554
    Location:
    Aptos, Ca
    Ah cool! That makes me feel better.
     
  19. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,570
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    As a point of reference, I have about 6,000 miles on the car and charge at 16 amps / 240 volts at home and 15 amps / 208 volts at work. I always get 242 miles of range on a Standard charge, although it will start to fall due to the "vampire" draw as it sits.
     
  20. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    I'm presuming you are still on either 4.3 or 4.4?? Can you share which version firmware you are running?? Thanks!
     

Share This Page