Bad, confusing, misleading delivery experience. Do NOT buy a used P90DL from Tesla.

[gigawatt1010]

@DontDoIt - I see you’re in the East Coast. Is your DC happened to be in NY?

 

[Mickie]

2 months for a $40 billion dollar company to refund you under-the-cushion change. Unreal. You should at the very least be allowed to keep the car or be given a loaner until they’re able to muster up your money.

Obviously it’s great that you’re able to return the car without hiring an attorney, and I feel relieved for you, but damn...

 

[DontDoIt]

Yeah, it’s very unfortunate... but there are no good deals (used or inventory) anyway that I’d like to buy, and no Tesla advisor I’ve reached out to find a good deal has responded back to me.

I’d consider a Model 3 except I need free supercharging. I’m now seriously thinking of getting something like a S7, or RS7. Audi’s CPO adds a year so if you get a 2016 car, you’ll have warranty until 2021, which is comparable to Tesla used.

 

[David.85D]

3. As mentioned in this thread, never sign the papers before inspection. If they insist you might even consider walking out right then and there because it's sure to be bad news.

Agree with this list, but I would change this to:

3. As mentioned in this thread, never sign the papers before inspection. If they insist you MUST walk out right then and there because it's sure to be bad news.

 

[IGdawgI]

I put down a deposit on a P90DL (advertised on their website as 270 mile range / 2.6sec 0-60). They had no pictures on the website but later they sent me pictures of some mild curb rash on the wheels, due billing them. This obviously made me think if they're sending me that, they would send me any other possible damage that's at this level or worse.

On delivery day I was made to sit down and sign papers immediately before being shown the car. When I was uncomfortable with this the delivery person said I could return this car in 7 days if I didn't like it. I specifically asked if that policy was valid for used cars and not just new, and she said yes. So I signed the papers (very dumb, I'm aware) and got the car. The whole thing was so rushed and confusing that I didn't even realize they didn't give me charging cables (worse, neither did they).

After I came home I uncovered a WHOLE bunch of problems with the car, exterior interior sound performance range etc etc. whatever I could think of. But now of course Tesla tells me there's no return period for this car. Even though I'm not asking for a full return, I just wanna exchange it for a P100DL Even though I was TOLD I could return it. Even worse, they don't even acknowledge any of it and are completely dismissive.

• The car has twice the expected range degradation from a car with this many miles (10% degradation)
• We've measured 0-60 times for this car and it's 3+ seconds (launch mode & heated). Literally 20 percent slower than advertised. The same equipment measures my friend's P85D at ~3.15 and P100DL at ~2.4
• Upon research I've found that there are versions to 90kWh batteries and mine is of course the worst one with the worst perf. and highest degradation. The V1 batteries were literally never even capable of 2.6 and those P90Ds are way closer to P85Ds than P100DLs. Tesla knows this and what battery my car has, but saw no problem advertising it as if it had literally the best possible battery. How more misleading can you be?
• I guess what we measured for my car is even worse than what's expected from a V1
• There are a lot of scratches and dents on the exterior, at least 3 very visible ones including a long 'line' on the brake light
• A lot of scratches on the seat leathers
• Damaged alcantara on driver headliner, about 35% of it is filled with white cottony spots
• So many noises coming from everywhere. I counted at least 3 different types of noises coming from different sides of the car, all loud, sometimes all together to form some sort of shitty cacophonic orchestra. Creaking, rattling, shaking, you name it it's there.
• Unbearable wind noise.
• They didn't give me a charging cable that's how rushed it was
• The passenger side 'potato chip' door thing just ... fell off the first and only time someone sat in it. Obviously very minor issue but it just fell off, showing how little care went into the delivery of this car

The last 2 things are easy to fix. The 2 before that are potentially fixable by service center although I know it's gonna take many visits and many months.

Again. I am aware that a lot of this is my fault, since I did sign the papers and I did take the delivery. It's a dumb thing to do, and there are no excuses for me, but there are explanations. And the explanation is that I was pretty clearly misled by Tesla from the very beginning to the delivery at every turn.

1. Misleading website: They advertised wrong 0-60 times. They know that with my battery I could never get 2.6. But they see no problem grouping my car with clearly superior cars
2. Misleading pre-delivery communication: They were very selective with what pictures they shared with me, leading me to think the curb rash had to be the worst damage on the vehicle
3. Misleadingly (outright falsely) ensuring me I could return the car in 7 days while I was signing the papers

I told them a billion times I don't wanna return the car and get my money back forever. I just want another car, one that isn't so disappointing in every area I can think of. I'm even considering getting a new P100DL. Not only they aren't budging, they are not acknowledging the possibility of having misled me. They don't even seem to acknowledge that there might be some validity in my disappointment, they're dismissing it as "buyer's remorse". Buyers remorse is not the same as getting something far inferior to what you were advertised.

I'm sure many people here will tell me I've been stupid and should not have been stupid. I get it. Others will tell me I still have a super fast car and should be happy. To them, I say that if I wanted 3+ second 0-60, I could have easily gotten a P85D, which would have been about $13,000 cheaper, and probably have a less degraded battery.

Learn from my stupidity and do not trust Tesla in any way. Don't trust they are telling you the trust and for SURE don't trust they will try to make something right after they've got your money. And do not get a P90DL until you can confirm it's a better battery pack. And ask for pictures. Lots and lots of them.

Very similar situation with me but I was able to view the car and notate items to be fixed before signing. I read numerous horror stories like yours. Overall I'm happy with the car minus the 5 service center visits so far within 3 months is ownership.

What I learned is you may need a service manager to come to get things fixed. I had to request that several times on various issues.

Maybe supercharger the car daily to kill the battery and have them replace it? Lol

Sorry to hear about your experience. Good luck on dealing with the SC. It's another nightmare! Just referencing the FREMONT SC.

 

[G_Fam]

I put down a deposit on a P90DL (advertised on their website as 270 mile range / 2.6sec 0-60). They had no pictures on the website but later they sent me pictures of some mild curb rash on the wheels, due billing them. This obviously made me think if they're sending me that, they would send me any other possible damage that's at this level or worse.

On delivery day I was made to sit down and sign papers immediately before being shown the car. When I was uncomfortable with this the delivery person said I could return this car in 7 days if I didn't like it. I specifically asked if that policy was valid for used cars and not just new, and she said yes. So I signed the papers (very dumb, I'm aware) and got the car. The whole thing was so rushed and confusing that I didn't even realize they didn't give me charging cables (worse, neither did they).

After I came home I uncovered a WHOLE bunch of problems with the car, exterior interior sound performance range etc etc. whatever I could think of. But now of course Tesla tells me there's no return period for this car. Even though I'm not asking for a full return, I just wanna exchange it for a P100DL Even though I was TOLD I could return it. Even worse, they don't even acknowledge any of it and are completely dismissive.

• The car has twice the expected range degradation from a car with this many miles (10% degradation)
• We've measured 0-60 times for this car and it's 3+ seconds (launch mode & heated). Literally 20 percent slower than advertised. The same equipment measures my friend's P85D at ~3.15 and P100DL at ~2.4
• Upon research I've found that there are versions to 90kWh batteries and mine is of course the worst one with the worst perf. and highest degradation. The V1 batteries were literally never even capable of 2.6 and those P90Ds are way closer to P85Ds than P100DLs. Tesla knows this and what battery my car has, but saw no problem advertising it as if it had literally the best possible battery. How more misleading can you be?
• I guess what we measured for my car is even worse than what's expected from a V1
• There are a lot of scratches and dents on the exterior, at least 3 very visible ones including a long 'line' on the brake light
• A lot of scratches on the seat leathers
• Damaged alcantara on driver headliner, about 35% of it is filled with white cottony spots
• So many noises coming from everywhere. I counted at least 3 different types of noises coming from different sides of the car, all loud, sometimes all together to form some sort of shitty cacophonic orchestra. Creaking, rattling, shaking, you name it it's there.
• Unbearable wind noise.
• They didn't give me a charging cable that's how rushed it was
• The passenger side 'potato chip' door thing just ... fell off the first and only time someone sat in it. Obviously very minor issue but it just fell off, showing how little care went into the delivery of this car

The last 2 things are easy to fix. The 2 before that are potentially fixable by service center although I know it's gonna take many visits and many months.

Again. I am aware that a lot of this is my fault, since I did sign the papers and I did take the delivery. It's a dumb thing to do, and there are no excuses for me, but there are explanations. And the explanation is that I was pretty clearly misled by Tesla from the very beginning to the delivery at every turn.

1. Misleading website: They advertised wrong 0-60 times. They know that with my battery I could never get 2.6. But they see no problem grouping my car with clearly superior cars
2. Misleading pre-delivery communication: They were very selective with what pictures they shared with me, leading me to think the curb rash had to be the worst damage on the vehicle
3. Misleadingly (outright falsely) ensuring me I could return the car in 7 days while I was signing the papers

I told them a billion times I don't wanna return the car and get my money back forever. I just want another car, one that isn't so disappointing in every area I can think of. I'm even considering getting a new P100DL. Not only they aren't budging, they are not acknowledging the possibility of having misled me. They don't even seem to acknowledge that there might be some validity in my disappointment, they're dismissing it as "buyer's remorse". Buyers remorse is not the same as getting something far inferior to what you were advertised.

I'm sure many people here will tell me I've been stupid and should not have been stupid. I get it. Others will tell me I still have a super fast car and should be happy. To them, I say that if I wanted 3+ second 0-60, I could have easily gotten a P85D, which would have been about $13,000 cheaper, and probably have a less degraded battery.

Learn from my stupidity and do not trust Tesla in any way. Don't trust they are telling you the trust and for SURE don't trust they will try to make something right after they've got your money. And do not get a P90DL until you can confirm it's a better battery pack. And ask for pictures. Lots and lots of them.

 

[G_Fam]

First post...

Sorry to read about the experience here and with @iqless. These threads definitely helped me to be prepared going through the CPO process for the 2016 P90DL that I just picked up a few days ago. Picked up in Costa Mesa CA facility and the experience was very easy without any sales persons trying to pressure signing. The CPO process start (placing order) to pick up was less than a week as the car was SoCal local and no trade-in or financing. Thanks to the P90DL forums, I knew based on the VIN that I was not getting a V3 battery and was most likely a V2. I knew to check battery degradation and battery version (which is a V2) and walk away from delivery if this didn't meet my expectations going in. Thanks to everyone contributing.

 

[DontDoIt]

Update: I've dropped the car off 1 week ago today.

My refund is supposed to come in 3 parts:

1) Refund my credit card for the $2,500 order payment
2) Repay my bank for their financing of the vehicle
3) Cut me a check for the rest (this is the one that they said could take up to 60 days)

Not surprisingly, I haven't received any of the above three, and again they seem to have stopped responding. I am now without a car and also without a means to get another car since I can't take out a loan with good APR because I just took out one. I love Tesla, best company

 

[davewill]

It probably varies from location to location, but there are many people who were told to sign the papers before being shown the car. It also seems to be a problem with the used program, not for new cars

They're also doing it with new cars. They "told" me to sign first, too. I simply said "No."

 

[DontDoIt]

Awesome update: Tesla isn't even responding to me any more regarding my refund. They've had the car back for more than a week and I have nothing. They haven't even disconnected my app from the car. I can still see where it is: It's exactly where I returned it and they haven't even moved it.

I can't get a car before they give me my money back. They aren't even responding to me.

 

[gigawatt1010]

You probably won't see any progress on this until after the quarter-end push or when they're not too busy developing games for the Arcade interface.

I bought an existing inventory MX 100D this month that's supposed to come with Free Unlimited Supercharging and the knuckleheads at my DC in NY did not put it in my MX. Now I had to call their support and open a ticket and I'm still waiting.

 

[Blitz3RS]

Interesting thread to read and sorry to hear about your experience.

Hope you get paid in full soon enough!

 

[SMAlset]

When these cars are all 10+ years old, the 90s, despite being a couple years newer, will probably have lowest values of all the big-battery cars (85, 90, 100 kWh).

It sounds like you got a car that the original owner didn't take very good care of, or just flat-out abused the snot out of; the way you describe the interior condition, it sounds like it was abused.

Knowing this doesn't help your situation much, but it might explain the high battery degradation you've got there.

I'm sure you know it now but bit of research would have shown that the 90 batteries were not that popular with owners. You kind of had the advantage of being able to know ahead of buying unlike owners who bought their cars new with the newer batteries. Being a P90DL I suspect the owner did a lot of launches with it, might have reached some max level, and that might have something to do with it's condition, speed and charging now. Guys were spending the extra for these PDL models for that feature alone. BTW have you tried to recondition the battery to see if it improved the range?

I'm sympathetic to your situation but with used cars it is buyer-beware and I get that you acknowledge that. Not everyone who buys a used P90DL will experience the things you have. I get that you'd like to exchange your car for another now. I don't know that other car manufacturer dealerships would easily agree to that with a used car especially.

I think most manufacturers handle diagnosing rattles in about the same way and have read on the forum here about Tesla charging for it. Sure it's to cover the labor removing and reinstalling panels to look for a loose or rubbing part. This is a used car so I wouldn't expect that to be warranteed or due billed with goodwill. From past threads I've read, wind noise might be coming from the alignment of the roof panels (and seals) or possibly from air space around the door handles or door seals. If you end up with the car, you might want to look into a few of those threads to see how people worked to improve those areas. Do you have photos of the interior?

I might have missed it, but what did you pay for your P90DL?

*Posted before reading that Tesla agreed to take back the car but wanted to leave up for the comments anyway. And still would like to know what the purchase price of the car was.

 

[SMAlset]

I want a Tesla so bad I can't even describe it. But there are just too many stories like this and too many people waiting for parts to repair their cars that's been keeping me from taking the plunge and making a purchase. I think Tesla has gotten too big to fast and I will give them a few more years to get their act together. I wonder how many buyers out there feel the same way and have come to the same decision.

And then there are those of us who are one or two-car Tesla families and haven't had any major problems with their cars (and had due bill items taken care of), haven't had issues with service or in the case of my husband's body damage from a bad driver, had only a week in the shop to get the panel and bumper fixed. In our case the work looks great too. There are definitely some owners who haven't had a good experience. People do come on here to vent and we all know there are whole industries and automobile associations that are doing everything they can to show Tesla in a bad light in hopes of crushing it or slowing it down. Jobs and profit are on the line so the motivation is understandable. Anyway all to be taken into account. All I can say is both of us are very happy with our cars, how they handle and the benefits of EV life and have no regrets buying the cars we did.

 

[gudzilla]

Happy for @DontDolt.

my situation is quite similar. i picked up the car in early June in Phoenix area. since i live in LA i decided to save $2K and bought a ticket, flew to AZ, got the car and drove back home. my car had no scratches and matched all the images they sent when i place the order. but right after the first Super charging station i noticed that car shows 221 miles at 90% charging, which means 247 miles at 100% (10% less than listed on Tesla website). at the very next supercharging i decided to charge the car to 100% and i got 247 miles as i thought.

once i got home, i emailed my delivery about the range concern and was advised to schedule appointment with service center, which i did. day before the visit to SC i got text from Tesla saying the following:

"We have reviewed your vehicles data and have found no issues regarding the health of the vehicle's HV Battery Pack. With the vehicles little use and charge from 10% to 100%, this will result in an underestimating calculation of range displayed as indicated.

Range displayed is based on a calculation by the battery management system of charge cycles. We advise to have constant charging/discharging between ~70% and 90% to roughly correct this estimation. This does not affect your true driving range of ~270 miles

A service visit is not required at this time."

So i decided to drive the car for at least a month. it's been more than a month and my range did not improve what so ever. i drove at no more than 65m/hr, easy on a throttle, using regen braking, etc.

about two ago i decided to schedule another appointment with Tesla SC and for a second time, right before the visit, they sent me another text message saying that there is no need to visit SC, they will run battery and motor diagnostics over the air. week later they called me saying same story that they don't know how previous driver was driving the car and battery could've degraded that much and there is nothing wrong with the battery or motor.

While they were doing their diagnostics, i decided to do some research on my own and was able to see that there are a lot of P90D owners that have similar issue, including storied about V1, V2 and V3 battery versions which Tesla does not disclose at all. i also found very interesting fact: if you get 21" wheels cars battery is not up to par with Tesla listed numbers by 7% or more. You can find interesting facts here: Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com (thank you teslike).

Long story short, i love the car and i'm trying to find a middle ground with Tesla where both parties will be happy as i think i should've got 100% of what i paid for and not 90% nor 85%. Tesla claims that they perform 70 points of inspection for any used car and as electric car manufacture it would be surprising that they will not inspect battery and motor. It should be very simple for them to list on their used inventory actual numbers after the inspection and be completely transparent about what they selling. being honest and transparent helps any business.

 

[davewill]

...
While they were doing their diagnostics, i decided to do some research on my own and was able to see that there are a lot of P90D owners that have similar issue, including storied about V1, V2 and V3 battery versions which Tesla does not disclose at all. i also found very interesting fact: if you get 21" wheels cars battery is not up to par with Tesla listed numbers by 7% or more. You can find interesting facts here: Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com (thank you teslike).

Long story short, i love the car and i'm trying to find a middle ground with Tesla where both parties will be happy as i think i should've got 100% of what i paid for and not 90% nor 85%. Tesla claims that they perform 70 points of inspection for any used car and as electric car manufacture it would be surprising that they will not inspect battery and motor. It should be very simple for them to list on their used inventory actual numbers after the inspection and be completely transparent about what they selling. being honest and transparent helps any business.

All of this is normal enough for a used electric vehicle. It happens with ICE vehicles too, older vehicles not getting the mileage numbers that new ones do, or wheel and tire choices lowering mileage...but it's not a big factor in the value of the car usually.

We see it all the time on the LEAF forum. Cars are advertised with the EPA range when they are currently getting much less, in some cases nearly half that. Buyers, and even some used car dealers, are too often blissfully unaware of battery health as a critical factor in the worth of the vehicle...and that's with Nissan at least putting battery health bars directly on the instrument panel! The answer in the short term is that buyers have to insist on knowing the battery health before buying. In the long term, we're probably going to have to make it something disclosed by law, like mileage, on the instrument panel and in paperwork, so that all buyers are made aware of the health of the battery.

 

[gudzilla]

The answer in the short term is that buyers have to insist on knowing the battery health before buying. In the long term, we're probably going to have to make it something disclosed by law, like mileage, on the instrument panel and in paperwork, so that all buyers are made aware of the health of the battery.

i totally agree with you, dealers and/or manufactures have to disclose accurate numbers especially when they claim that they (Tesla) performed 70 point inspection on the car before listing it for sale. i would assume that they are inspecting battery and motor and can easily figure out what would be the actual range.

 

[davewill]

i totally agree with you, dealers and/or manufactures have to disclose accurate numbers especially when they claim that they (Tesla) performed 70 point inspection on the car before listing it for sale. i would assume that they are inspecting battery and motor and can easily figure out what would be the actual range.

Is that why you marked my post "Disagree?"

 

[gudzilla]

Is that why you marked my post "Disagree?"

sorry, i'm kinda new here and not sure even how i marked your post as disagree. all i did is press reply, write my 2 cents and press post reply.

 

[davewill]

sorry, i'm kinda new here and not sure even how i marked your post as disagree. all i did is press reply, write my 2 cents and press post reply.

Whoops, my bad, it was another user.