Bad news for those who delayed until 1/1

[LeoLeo]

They would not hold an order for 5+ months to April 2022 for an order already 6+ months old. You probably should have transferred the reservation/order or swapped with somebody with an April/May EDD.

well ok however i am so upset with Tesla sales force lies, no human interaction

nobody was holding order for “ 5 mos”
are you married, children, grandchildren, love ones in arms way ? well i do have all that
i placed orders for Y, S, have Tesla solar,
Cyber truck, F sales AO was informed when deposit placed that we spend holidays at other home out of USA be back April/May he said no problem
Tesla cancel order on Y because more money can be made now

 

[PineNut]

The eTron was used because is is covered by the current incentive WITHOUT income caps. If the new BS bill passes 'retroactive' (and I make more than the income caps in the BS bill) the old incentive will be null and I would loose. Nothing to to with tesla, but this bill is not and was not about Tesla.

There would be a similar problem with the very popular Rav4 Prime PHEV.

The current tax credit for it is $7500 (nonrefundable). With the current text for the BBB Bill the tax credit will be a refundable $4000 since it is not made in the US.

If you purchased a Rav4 Prime in January 2022 expecting the $7500 tax credit, you might only end up with $4000 if the BBB Bill were to pass after that and the BBB Bill still had an effective date of Jan 1st.

So I see two strong arguments against the BBB Bill being retroactive to Jan 1st if it passed later next year. The first is as described above. The second reason has been previously mentioned numerous times; the bill would cost more if you make it retroactive and why give a credit to people who already purchased a car if the intent of the bill is to encourage selling more EVs?

I'm thus assuming the BBB Bill, if it ever passes, will not be retroactive to Jan 1st. But anything can happen with Congress...

 

[ATPMSD]

Like Elon’s promises, I’ll wait to see what actually shows up - if at all.

 

[LeoLeo]

way to handle this situation if i own company
tesla knows i ordered car in USA at our 6 -9 month home. Sales man was notified of same before deposit placed. We hung around USA home as long as we could . tesla notified us email on 12-6-21 need to pick up in 2-3 days . we are out of USA until april 2022

 

[MYPNate]

Would love to know what these 17 Nobel winning economists overlooked that you didn't

I don’t trust any Economists that has ties to Washington especially because govt spending is chronic capitalism 99% of the time. Running $3 trillion annual deficits and saying we can spend our way out of inflation is nonsense. But hey, we can agree to disagree on this one.

Would love to know what these 17 Nobel winning economists overlooked that you didn't

 

[swiftd03]

Huh? Please show me where in the Constitution this is written.

Article 1, Section 7 (originally)

Section 7​

• Finance bills
• First chamber reserved policy areas
• Show more

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

• Tax bills
• Approval of general legislation
• Show more

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Now this is what is often misquoted as being the 60% rule. In actuality this is only to override a presidential veto. The 60% rule related to the senate is outlined here The Filibuster, Explained and goes back to 1917, not the constitution.

 

[Corndart]

Article 1, Section 7 (originally)

Section 7​

• Finance bills
• First chamber reserved policy areas
• Show more

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

• Tax bills
• Approval of general legislation
• Show more

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

Now this is what is often misquoted as being the 60% rule. In actuality this is only to override a presidential veto. The 60% rule related to the senate is outlined here The Filibuster, Explained and goes back to 1917, not the constitution.

Are you perhaps confusing new taxes with new spending? They're going for reconciliation in either event.

 

[swiftd03]

Are you perhaps confusing new taxes with new spending? They're going for reconciliation in either event.

The one who posted that was saying that any new spending should require a 60% vote. I was just referencing the questions regarding the 60% rule and the fact that it actually has nothing to do with the constitution.

 

[Seminole]

Manchin not backing Dems' $2T bill, potentially dooming it

Sen. Joe Manchin says he can't back his party’s signature $2 trillion social and environment bill. That would deal a seemingly fatal blow to President Joe Biden’s leading domestic initiative.

apnews.com

 

[AZMOM]

Tesla likely will also push hard to cancel your order if you've been kicking the can down the road a few months... if you rebuy next year, you're likely eating anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000 in extra costs to help offset that EV credit

Just order the car, take delivery, and enjoy

Good point about the higher cost. We were informed on 12/20 that our car was going to be ready on 12/22. (Thanks for the two days notice, Tesla.) tried with no success to push to after 1/1/22. Glad we just took the car rather than the continued stress and unknowns. Hoping the rest of our first Tesla ownership experience is better than the delivery (though they did deliver to our house which was very much appreciated and “posh”)

 

[DeaconBlues]

Manchin is out.

 

[Sludog]

Even if the bill was going to get passed with Manchin's blessing, the bill would have been stripped down to get pushed through and the EV credits would have likely been taken out or whittled down to nothing. It appears that that the EV tax credits are the least important thing in that bill with talks last week of it being removed entirely to get the bill passed.

 

[MY-Y]

I just released my hold. I still get the $5k lower price and a healthier country. I hope BBB stays dead.

 

[leaftoy]

I just released my hold. I still get the $5k lower price and a healthier country. I hope BBB stays dead.

I hope they send you and others like you to the back of the line instead of pushing folks who have waited without playing any hold games further back.

 

[Two-rocks]

I hope they send you and others like you to the back of the line instead of pushing folks who have waited without playing any hold games further back.

Nope, removed my hold (model 3) and got a new vin and vision agreement in under an hour....

 

[leaftoy]

Nope, removed my hold (model 3) and got a new vin and vision agreement in under an hour....

Good for you but not fair for people who never went on hold and have been ready to take delivery in Nov/Dec.

 

[Clark_Kent]

Like I said, there's no way this bill passes in its current form. Still shocking to see all these suckers holding out for this bill to pass especially since there was no indication its passing was imminent.

 

[Zorg]

Ordered in May, got it in September and net net paid $8k less than if I order one now, so truly indifferent to the BBB. Wouldn't be surprised if EV incentives stay as is for the foreseeable future. At least, we got fed incentives to build charging infrastructure which is really what we need to sustain EV adoption.

 

[PineNut]

While there was a lot of controversy over all the stuff in the BBB Bill, I didn't see a lot of disagreement over the EV tax credits other than the extra $3500 for made in USA with union labor.

I wouldn't be surprised if parts of BBB Bill are pulled out and introduced as separate bills in order to get some things to pass. I could see the $3500 being removed completely because both the made in USA and union labor have big issues. Other countries are complaining that made in USA is like a tariff. The union made part is seen as pork and is unpopular with many, myself (and probably safe to assume Tesla) included.

Maybe we eventually end up with a bill that eliminates the current 200,000 EVs produced limit, keeps the same $7500 tax credit as we currently have, but adds the limits to income and/or EV prices which the BBB Bill had but the current tax credit did not have?

 

[Corndart]

While there was a lot of controversy over all the stuff in the BBB Bill, I didn't see a lot of disagreement over the EV tax credits other than the extra $3500 for made in USA with union labor.

I wouldn't be surprised if parts of BBB Bill are pulled out and introduced as separate bills in order to get some things to pass. I could see the $3500 being removed completely because both the made in USA and union labor have big issues. Other countries are complaining that made in USA is like a tariff. The union made part is seen as pork and is unpopular with many, myself (and probably safe to assume Tesla) included.

Maybe we eventually end up with a bill that eliminates the current 200,000 EVs produced limit, keeps the same $7500 tax credit as we currently have, but adds the limits to income and/or EV prices which the BBB Bill had but the current tax credit did not have?

Solid line of thinking. It's possible the element we're (mostly) sticking to talking about is extracted and passed independently of a large spending package. However, this iron curtain of a certain party wanting no part of helping the other party eek out even marginal wins has me a bit pessimistic. Partisan politics have always been an element of our government, but IMO no matter what your party affiliation is, the fact that they can't seem pass anything at all without it devolving into R vs D, should be deeply troubling.