Yep, that is what happened to me at my first true up. Which is why my heaters are now at 70 for the winter. Wife happy
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Balancing NEM buckets over the year
- Thread starter GuyHall
- Start date
RKCRLR
Active Member
I've attached a copy of my True-Up statement that I based post #20 on below. I'm on NEM2 EV2A. Perhaps my using the term Net Producer is incorrect but it looks like PG&E uses Energy Charges to determine the line between if you owe money or get credited. The verbiage is constantly referencing charges. The only time net kWh usage is mentioned is when determining surplus credit. It would be interesting to see someone with on NEM2 with positive energy charges post their True-Up statement to see what the differences are.
Let me point out that in the final computation at the bottom right, while the "Total NEM Charges Before Taxes" is listed, it's not part of the final summation. And in the "Credit for Net Surplus Compensation," that Net Surplus refers to kWh. The input to the NSC computation is the 841 kWh you net exported for the year.
So that matches the descriptions that have been given earlier in the thread.
Cheers, Wayne
So that matches the descriptions that have been given earlier in the thread.
Cheers, Wayne
RKCRLR
Active Member
Per the verbiage, "Total NEM Charges before Taxes" are one of the of the components used to determine if you get credit for Minimum Delivery Charges. I believe that is why it is listed.
I agree that the NSC is based on Net Usage in kWh but that appears to be the only time it is used for my situation since I have negative Energy Charges.
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand how they determine charges.
As I said, it would be interesting to compare a NEM2 True-Up statement with positive Energy Charges to see the differences.
The language about crediting the MDCs (which you've already paid each month) is just their way of saying that if your annual cost (before NSC) is greater than the MDCs, you pay the difference. If it's less, you don't get the MDCs back.
I'm on NEM1, so I'm not clear on how the NBCs are counted. If they are separate from the NEM charges, then when NEM >= 0, your total annual cost is just max(MDC, NBC + NEM).
Cheers, Wayne
RKCRLR
Active Member
They state "The Minimum Delivery Charges are credited at True-Up if the total NEM Charges Before taxes or the NBC Charges are greater than the cumulative Minimum Distribution Charges." In my case I had negative NEM charges but NBC charges greater than MDC charges so I got the MDC credit based on NBC charges.
Yes, that's all in accordance with what I said. I'm assuming since you responded you see a conflict,, but there isn't one.
You owe the larger of MDC and NBC (since NEM is negative for you), and you've already paid MDC. If MDC is bigger, the true-up is 0, you don't get anything back from that. If NBC is bigger, then you owe the difference; you are charged the NBC but credited the MDCs you already paid.
Then NSC is on top of the above, if applicable.
Cheers, Wayne
RKCRLR
Active Member
What I'm not clear on is whether the -$256.04 of NEM charges includes the $149.72 of NBCs or not.
If it does, that matches with the use "or" in the sentence you quoted, and the total annual cost (before NSC) is max(MDC,NEM,NBC).
But some of my responses have assumed that it doesn't, meaning the total annual cost would be max(MDC,max(NBC,NBC+NEM)).
Cheers, Wayne
I am guessing that the NEM charges don't include the NBCs. The NEM Charges are not aligned in the same column and they don't add to anything in the final billing. They are set aside because he is a net generator. Perhaps @RKCRLR should show the final amount owed. I think it is NBC-MDC-NSC=$4.18
Overall, I'd say that's a great outcome.
That bill isn't going to provide any info about the distinction because the NEM total is negative.
The question is, for a NEM2 bill with say NEM total $200, NBC total $150, and MDC $120, do you owe $200 + $150 - $120 at true up (my assumption and your guess), or do you owe $200 - $120 at true up (because the NEM total already includes the NBCs)?
It's just a question of the definitions, the same information is available for the billing computation either way.
Cheers, Wayne
RKCRLR
Active Member
Effectively, it was $4.18. There were some other monthly credits and charges on that bill.
I should point out that bill was prior to me getting paired storage (and I mistakenly said I was on EV2A at that time, I was actually on TOU-C at that point in time). But the approach shouldn't change. I no longer get the easy to read summary on my blue bill, my True-Up amount just shows up as "Current Electric Charges" on my blue bill. I have to go to the B&W bill to find the corresponding information and details.
What this shows is that once your Energy Charges go negative your usage/production doesn't have a big influence on your True-Up amount. But your usage has a big influence if your Energy Charges are positive.
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This is confusing to me as well, the example given above seems to be for NEM 1.0 and I thought one of the big differences between NEM 1.0 and 2.0 is NBC.
According to the Black Bill:
*The State Mandated Non-Bypassable Charge (NBC) is calculated based on your energy usage and is relevant to determine
the True-Up amount. This amount is included within the Energy Charges however, cannot be offset by credits from exports.
The PG&E Solar Customer Service told me the same. I asked if I have $50.00 NBC charge for the 12 months and I have MDC of $120.00 and $0 energy charge, would I still have to pay the NBC and the answer is you pay NBC regardless.
According to the Black Bill:
*The State Mandated Non-Bypassable Charge (NBC) is calculated based on your energy usage and is relevant to determine
the True-Up amount. This amount is included within the Energy Charges however, cannot be offset by credits from exports.
The PG&E Solar Customer Service told me the same. I asked if I have $50.00 NBC charge for the 12 months and I have MDC of $120.00 and $0 energy charge, would I still have to pay the NBC and the answer is you pay NBC regardless.
Correct. pushing the NBCs lower than the minimums doesn't get you any additional benefit.
That was confirmed to me today by a PG&E solar rep on phone.
The big surprise to me, and why I had such a challenge understanding the true-up, is that during the true up ALL peak, off peak and partial peak buckets are treated the same. There is no incentive by NEW2 to over produce during peak or partial peak instead of off peak. I was stunned that the PG&E true up rate didn't care. That's great for me as a power producer, but doesn't help social grid issues / challenges (duck curve, etc.)
I did notice that the true-up shown could not be with Powerwall because the true-up was still on the Blue bill and could not be EV2-A because it did not have any Part-Peak bin.
RKCRLR
Active Member
Below is the formula from my B&W bill for using MDC to offset NBCs:
This resulted in a $34.14 True-Up adjustment on my latest True-Up statement.
By adjustment, you mean $34.14 was passed from the B&W bill to the Blue bill for payment? Where does the NSC appear? On the Blue Bill only?
I am asking these questions because your situation is different than mine. I am a significant net consumer and NEM 1.0.
RKCRLR
Active Member
Below is the first page of my B&W bill:
The line for NSC only appears here. The only thing that shows on my Blue Bill is the $9.84 summary that is listed here as "Total Current Month's Electric Charges Due".
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