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Banning Shorts

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by Ocelot, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. Ocelot

    Ocelot Member

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    Despite it being summer, the ban on shorts continues.

    Reality-banned. Shortseller-banned.

    I speak out, as in my humble opinion, there is a double standard here on this board, and it seems to be getting worse, although is far from new.

    I have mentioned this before, but some prolific posters here, went and started a different board, about solar investing. Lots of people, put lots of money into GTAT. Anyone short GTAT was silenced via mostly harsh treatment. Any argument brought up was met with "we have discussed that before, proven it wrong, move on". People lost lots of money.

    I see similar things happening here, and I do not think it benefits anybody. Banning the opposing view is simply counter-intuitive and the antitheses of knowledgeable investing.

    I do realize a moderator might chime in to tell me 'i do not know what was happening behind the scenes'. this is true. However in my direct experience, with talking with a moderator in the early years of me joining here about why my words (thread title) were changed, without notifying me, or even marking it at the time. I was talked to about "perception" and how the "media might pick up on things". This despite my words being true. In other words, censorship. Censoring words, or the people that contributes leaves you with a distorted view of truth. A mirage generated by amplifying echoes, darkening and dulling rather than sharpening and illuminating.

    Over my six or so years of reading this board daily, I have seen many a case of what seems more like personality clashes resulting in bans, rather than what the poster actually wrote. Usually these are chalked up to ' behind the scene ' behavior. Fear, uncertainty, doubt against the shorts. Maybe some transparency would go a ways into changing how I feel? Hard to know.

    I imagine, and know, it is hard to be a dissenting voice in a room. By necessity, you will almost invariably have to repeat yourself, as you are answering to a mass of others who disagree with you! In my opinion longs get a much easier ride, with much more tolerance (although recently some "cheerleaders" are being called out), and as a community, I would like to see some more tolerance of opposing views.

    For the record, I am not only long, I am all-in.

    Let the disagrees flow.
    Peace.
     
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  2. mblakele

    mblakele (つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)つ

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    I think this is a good conversation to have. I'm long myself, but I find it productive to hear from rational, intelligent voices that happen to be skeptical, or even short.

    It must be challenging for the investor forum mods to act in an even-handed way. It's probably even more difficult for the mods to be perceived as fair, especially by more extreme voices on either side. More transparency could help a bit with that.

    If I could change one aspect of the policy here, I'd add a "have your say and then sit down" rule. That is, folks should be encouraged to have their say on any side of an issue, as long as it doesn't break the Terms of Service. But once you've had your say, it's only considerate to listen for a while. High-frequency, repetitious posting will lead to moderator action, up to and including a permanent ban.
     
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  3. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    This is a forum for Tesla enthusiasts. If you’re here to try to talk down the stock price, then in my opinion you should go somewhere else. There are plenty of investing forums where that would be welcome.
     
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  4. generalenthu

    generalenthu Member

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    If you want the short view point, there are few places that are not over run with filth. The one good place I found was www.reddit.com/r/realtesla

    The conversation is surprisingly decent. Calling Tesla a fraud is banned. Some long voices are present. On balance, there are more moderate shorts there than the short trolls here.

    Note to self: WTF are you doing promoting a short board?
     
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  5. UnknownSoldier

    UnknownSoldier Unknown Member

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    r/realtesla is not a "decent" sub. It was founded by u/cliffordcat a notorious troll who got permanently banned from r/teslamotors after many repeated warnings and temp bans.
     
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  6. generalenthu

    generalenthu Member

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    Didn't know the history. There seem to be a couple of Tesla bulls posting there. I recently looked at it after looking at $tsla on Twitter, which is a cesspool. That's probably bring charitable. Maybe my bar for Tesla bears went to too low after my Twitter escapade.
     
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  7. PeterHG

    PeterHG Member

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    As a professional investor and Tesla owner, I have to say that I have ZERO interest in investment discussions on this board. This is the Tesla MOTORS Club. I'd prefer the Tesla INVESTORS Club meet elsewhere.
     
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  8. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

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    Shorts are not investors, they are the opposite of investors. If you don't think Tesla stock is a good buy and want to share your reasons why, I can see where that information could contribute to a meaningful discussion, but if you want Tesla to fail so you can make money you should leave your comments at Business Insider or Seeking Alpha instead of TMC.
     
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  9. skitown

    skitown Supporting Member

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    I’ve found the investment threads to be far and away the most interesting reading in my ~3 years on TMC. I’m curious why you care.
     
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  10. Sudre

    Sudre Member

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    I have to disagree with the OPs general understanding. There are shorts on this forum posting away. Shorts with a good opposing argument are great to hear from.

    Most readers and the mods do not have a problem with the opposing view. The problem comes from out right false statements that once pointed out to the short get repeated by the short as facts over and over. There is no need to waste space and time reading posts from shorts that continue to spout FUD even after it was clearly explained and proven to be incorrect.
     
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  11. Wooloomooloo

    Wooloomooloo Member

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    With all due respect, that's nonsense if this forum wants to have a area for honestly discussing investing. Otherwise you might as well just say "buy all the stock you can afford and hold on to it forever".

    It's very Unfortunately that Tesla is becoming one of those companies that you can't have an honest conversation about (a bit like Apple during the Jobs years). After Tesla announced their last monthly production numbers there was a post on Ars Technica about it saying the market has responded positively (because the price jumped during overnight trading on TINY volumes). I made a post that said the market was actually not impressed and the price would fall during the week (I work in Finance, specifically in Risk). Guess what? 106 downvotes (about 13 up) and my post got hidden.

    Over the next 3 days the stock price feel from $348 to $300, or over 15%. Now considering that unwinding shorts usually pushes the price up (and there were a lot of shorts at the end of June) that's really not a good performance. The point is, fanboyism drowned out a view that was valid, and anyone buying at $350 trying to make some quick cash would have been burned.

    Now, fundamentally I see Tesla as a very good long term investment - I even said that in my Ars post, but people just jumped on me saying it would fall last week and ignored good advice.

    People's mad love with Tesla is actually quite disturbing on a fundamental level. They're a great company doing something truly amazing, but when it comes to your finances and future, don't make those decisions with your teenage brain. I think an open and honest debate about investing in TSLA is critical, otherwise it should not be debated at all.
     
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  12. Wooloomooloo

    Wooloomooloo Member

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    Shorting is not always about moving the market or wanting to see a company fail, it's a bet on where you think the price will go - Tesla's price has a lot of downward pressure on it right now that has nothing to do with the company's performance.

    Additionally, some people short to hedge against call options. Given where the price went after the month end numbers, it seems there was a small bubble based on Musk's bullishness, which in the end when you really looked at it, wasn't justified.
     
  13. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    TMC moderators do not ban short sellers. They ban troublemakers, trolls, and others who repeatedly violate the terms of service.

    You are quite welcome to express negative opinions about Tesla as long as they are factually based and made respectfully.
     
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  14. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

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    Or... the small bubble was burst by a perfectly timed, erroneous article about Tesla not testing brakes on the Model 3... that was published by a publication notorious for feeding shorts. :rolleyes:
     
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  15. Boomer19

    Boomer19 Supporting Member

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    i agree with your intent. but it’s not about banning shorts (at least i hope not), it’s about banning trolls.
    i’ve seen repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly those who make invalid, misleading, factless, untruthful, etc etc pick one...points.
    someone takes the time and effort to correct them, but yet they post that same misleading crap again in same or other forums to spread the lies and try to bend the narrative.
    some shorts make decent points. some longs make decent points. facts are facts. fanatics are fanatics. opinions are opinions...and liars are liars, whether outright or by omission of fact. the latter must not be tolerated, long or short.
     
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  16. Boomer19

    Boomer19 Supporting Member

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    so you know, i stated my opinion on bans a few minutes ago...scroll back. (it’s not about bandwagons)

    it’s unfortunate that you were “out-noised” by commenters on that other site. i agree with many of your points. def about musks endeavors being very polarizing.

    but not with the point about not being able to have an honest conversation about tesla.

    you should read and contribute to the investor’s section of tmc once in a while, there’s plenty of opinions available there, and for the most part, lots of constructive criticism and healthy discussion
     
  17. Wooloomooloo

    Wooloomooloo Member

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    Well it works the other way. Tesla opening configuration for all reservation holders fed a bunch of call options and a price spike before the month end. However it did not represent anything which is why the price crashed back down below where it was before that happened.

    Sudden changes in equity prices rarely have anything to do with fundamentals. It’s quite hard for an individual company to shock the market in the absence of an M&A or some huge drop in revenue that was unforeseen. That’s not going to happen with Tesla for years, if at all.

    Bonds however are a different story. Prince changes in bonds (int he absence of a base rate change) ALWAYS are to do with fundamentals. Rather than discussing TSLA, this forum might want to spend some time looking at Tesla’s bond prices (hint they’re falling).
     
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  18. JoaoD

    JoaoD Tech Enthusiast

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    My opinion diverges. I think bans take sometimes too long to happen, there are many members, specially new ones that come here just to spread misinformation. And the same lies or twist keep on repeating and being debunked in the investors threads. And this members keep on getting downvoted, to the point of being ignored by most, but nothing is done, they keep on manipulating the narrative to suit their thesis and proclaiming lies as facts.
    I don't have any problem with opposing opinions, and I think that can be useful since it brings discussion to the forums, but those members that you are defending as shorts are just FUD spreaders, they go in circles in order not to address any of the points that are refuted and they keep their discussions one sided since they do not care about their arguments being debunked.
     
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  19. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    Amen to all of the above. The bond price is probably the best indicator of what the non-emotional capital markets are thinking about Tesla. Tesla bring more confidence to Wall Street will raise the price and create the right conditions to raise more capital.

    Musk has dug himself a hole with years of unmet forecasts. Wall Street would probably like a more adult version of Tesla where the CEO does not consistently add to his job responsibilities.

    I've lost track of who is nominally head of manufacturing for cars. Whoever it is I'm sure that Musk is disappointed in his performance. Musk doing an imitation of Hitler at the end of the Third Reich does not inspire confidence by the institutions he needs to fund major growth.
     
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  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    The investor section is pretty much moderator hell. Hats off to the volunteers who manage this section!
     
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