Barebone $35,000 Features

[MitchJi]

The base Model 3 will not have less kWh battery pack than the Chevy Bolt. That would be a marketing disaster.

Even with superior aerodynamics you don't get to 200 miles real world range with less than 60 kWh.

In the past I thought they might be ok with 200 EPA miles and a 48-55 kWh pack but not anymore.

I agree. 60kWh or 70kWh pack is minimum.

What does everyone think the chances are of the big windshield, like the MX? Elon was gushing about how nice it is on the CC.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...What does everyone think the chances are of the big windshield, like the MX? Elon was gushing about how nice it is on the CC.

I sure hope not. Replacing windshields due to rock damage is routine here. I sure don't want to pay for that fancy, fantastically expensive, Model X-type windshield because the truck in front of me kicked up a rock.

 

[mknoebel]

I'm also from Colorado and the rock damage to winshields is real. Most insurance does have an add on to replace winshields any time there is a crack. Would be interesting to see if that would be more expensive with a Model X type winshield.

 

[ArtC]

The Model ≡ will NOT be an econobox. It will not be front wheel drive. It will not compete directly with the LEAF or BOLT. Neither will it compete against the Corolla, Focus, Golf, Civic, Cruze, Sentra, Rio, or Elantra.

It is highly unlikely that Tesla Motors will even be able to build an econobox within the next ten years. The companies that build the world's most popular econoboxes all move nearly a million each of them worldwide, and have a capacity of around 10,000,000 cars overall. I think you are mistaking Generation III vehicles with a thus far unannounced Generation IV.

+100

 

[S'toon]

I agree. 60kWh or 70kWh pack is minimum.

What does everyone think the chances are of the big windshield, like the MX? Elon was gushing about how nice it is on the CC.

I don't think so. I think having a large windshield like that would drive up the costs, and they're trying to contain that with the 3. Going with the tried, true, and easy to do at a reasonable cost.

 

[SMSMD]

I don't think so. I think having a large windshield like that would drive up the costs, and they're trying to contain that with the 3. Going with the tried, true, and easy to do at a reasonable cost.

Agree, will be a regular windscreen , COST is the selling point for this model and keeping the base model as affordable as promised makes sense.

 

[Brad_SC]

Extrapolated configurations should be...
-Model ≡ 50 (230 mile range) (5.8 seconds 0-60 mph) $35,000
-Model ≡ 50D (240 mile range) (5.5 seconds 0-60 mph) $40,000
-Model ≡ 65D (288 mile range) (4.5 seconds 0-60 mph) $53,000
-Model ≡ P65D (270 mile range) (3.4 [3.1 "Ludicrous-Equivelant" Mode] seconds 0-60 mph) $73,000

Since "battery technology improves about 5% per year," Model S keeps getting better, "the Model ≡ should use mostly new technology," and I'm just plain hopeful... I'll adjust my expectations.

-Model ≡ 55 (265 mile range) (5.5 seconds 0-60 mph) $35,000
-Model ≡ 55D (275 mile range) (5.2 seconds 0-60 mph) $40,000
-Model ≡ 70D (320 mile range) (4.2 seconds 0-60 mph) $50,000
-Model ≡ P70D (300 mile range) (3.1 seconds 0-60 mph) $60,000
-Model ≡ P70DL (300 mile range) (2.8 seconds 0-60 mph) $65,000

 

[Tam]

...we'll all just have to wait...

Historically, to be true to the promise of relatively low price, barebone 40 kwh Model S was introduced (then quickly discontinued) as Supercharger-unabled, no-auto-presenting door handles, no navigation, choice of either black or white color, cloth seats...

I expect a $35,000 Model ≡ should have some thing similar that can make that promise true.

 

[Red Sage]

I have a bad feeling that Tesla will, to focus on manufacturing efficiencies, adopt the Japanese automaker model whereby:

1. They have 3-5 distinct trim levels (i.e. think Honda's LX, EX, Ex-L, etc.)...with no options other than color of interior/exterior at a given trim level.
2. Certain features are only available by going up to the next 1 or even 2 trim levels. This could include supercharging.
3. The larger battery options (if they even exist), will be tied exclusively to the higher profit trim levels.

While folks may not like it, the best selling cars in America (Camry and Accord) have been doing it for years...

I really don't understand why this would give you a 'bad feeling'... Tesla Motors already does this, except their trim levels are based upon battery pack capacity. Slight difference was that you could originally get pretty much every conceivable option on a Model S 40 or Model S 60 as you could on a Model S 85. Now a handful of options are only available on Performance trim levels, things like red brake caliper covers. Not a big deal, really. People all over Los Angeles will deck out a BMW 320i to the nines with every conceivable option, then debadge it.

Why market like Honda when you're looking to attract BMW and Audi buyers, not Honda buyers?

Honda's marketing was doing just fine... Until they started to advertise the same way as 'everyone else'... With end of year sales promotions every September & October... And actively comparing their cars to competitors... All this makes it seem they are desperate, trying too hard. It was better when they acted as if they were the only car company in the world. Y'know, just like Tesla Motors does.

To achieve similar driving range and performance as the Model S/X has, I do believe that the Model ≡ will require less battery capacity. Just as Premium Sedans with ICEs have gas tanks 33% larger than "Standard/Sport Sedans." (Based on that math, we can expect to see a Model ≡ 52.5 and a Model ≡ 67.5.) Consider the lower weight of a smaller car, the suggested reduction of the drag-coefficient, and a smaller surface area to start with... we can expect a slight reduction of those numbers yet.

I expect the performance of the base Tesla Model ≡ will match or surpass the BMW 3-Series overall, just as have its contemporaries in recent years. Cadillac ATS and Jaguar XE in particular have caught the 3-Series in handling, among others. Apparently, in the course of making the 3-Series a better car, BMW also made it a worse BMW, according to automotive journalists. So, it isn't a hard sell to presume the Model ≡ will be built to dethrone the 3-Series in every aspect of Performance, including acceleration, of course.

FWD or RWD, I don't know... but you can bet that the base model will be a Single Motor design, with an AWD upgrade option.

Overall range and performance probably will be very similar to the Model S, with the S having just the slightest advantages. Tesla doesn't want this car to pose the question, "Why not get a Model ≡?" They want this car to pose the question, "Why would I get anything but a Model ≡?"

The Model ≡ is the purpose, the reason, the goal for Tesla Motors. It is what they have been striving toward for over a decade. If no one ever bought another Model S or Model X because the Model ≡ became so popular, Elon Musk would be fine with the result.

He has already stated the base Model ≡ would be single motor RWD. Yes, a dual motor AWD version will be offered. There is a high likelihood that any Performance version would be strictly AWD.

I suppose that my thought process here is model distinction. Obviously I have no inside information or I would be too busy of a person to be posting here, haha. I just expect that Tesla has to make some hard decisions to help distinguish the various models, and with the X is was easy... Extra seats, Falcon Wing doors, Towing capability. But the sedans have a very blurred lines. If you don't pick something to separate them, why would anyone choose the S? Just to pay more to have less garage space? See, there has to be a compelling reason to purchase each individual model. The S has to demand respect and desire for someone with a budget For it, or they will simply spend less on the best Model 3.

Once again, Tesla doesn't need to 'protect' sales of Model S or Model X. People will buy what they want and can afford. BMW 3-Series outsells 7-Series every year. AUDI A4 outsells A8 every year. Lexus IS outsells LS every year. This is by design, and is expected. With traditional automobile manufacturers, their low end cars allow them to shoiw off their high end cars. Tesla Motors is built the other easy around. Specifically so that their high end cars are offered to allow their entry level cars to come to light.

What do you guys think about the door handles, will they be like a regular car or will they be like the Model X?

Though I had hoped they would be like Model S, I now expect the Model ≡ will have door handles like the Model X.

There's nothing wrong with Model 3 pricing getting close and overlapping lower end Model S prices. It's not a requisite that pricing has to be completely separate and not encroach on a higher end product line. It happens all the time with cars and electronics. It just boils down to features and what best fits your needs

Precisely.

and to further the point, who says Tesla even makes an econobox down the road?

Why water down their brand? Why not just become a battery partner for someone who wants to slog through high volume econobox production?

best of both worlds really. They can focus on making the cars they want to, and still help advance their goal of clean EV driving for the masses.

Tesla Motors probably doesn't care too much about 'watering down the brand'... I think they will be more pragmatic about it instead. So many seem to want them to sell 'cheap' new cars... But don't take the time to note that more and more traditional automobile manufacturers have entirely abandoned the sub-$15,000 market. Or, that the majority of new vehicles sold in the US cost around $22,000 each. Or, that the average sale price of a new car is over $31,000 and climbing. Or, that the companies that sell such vehicles, Corolla, Focus, Golf, et al, typically have the capacity for millions of vehicles per year. Tesla Motors won't have that sort of capacity for quite some time.

Regarding competing with the BMW 3-series, I believe the quote was only in the context of "performance". And in my opinion, primarily acceleration.

Therefore, I expect a 0-60 time of 6-7 seconds on the base model. I expect powertrain upgrades to improve acceleration to be comparable to the M3 - or better.

Furthermore, I expect the overall spec level of the base car to be comparable to an Accord/Camry/Fusion/Bolt (e.g. a 25k ICE vehicle). And I expect trim levels or option packages to increase the spec level to Model S levels.

Early on, during 2012 or 2013, when Elon Musk was asked what he meant when he said that Tesla Motors' Generation III vehicles would take on the BMW 3-Series... He clarified that the 328i was BMW's bread-and-butter car, and would be the baseline minimum Tesla would shoot for... I expect that if asked today, he would likely call out the 340i (since the 335i is gone). I do not believe he will go after the 320i, because it, well, sucks. It is basically no more than a rear wheel drive base Accord or Camry equivalent, with a smaller interior, much worse fuel economy, and a $12,000 markup.

 

[Max*]

Until we're told more, we'll all just have to wait and see who is right.

I think a $35,000 Model 3 will be similarly equipped to a base model CLA or A3.

I agree, similar to an A3 or a BMW 320i.
No power seats
No heated seats
No lumbar suppport
No leather
No keyless entry
No homelink
No moonroof
No nav
No folddown seats
No autodimming rear view mirror
No autodimming side view mirrors
etc.

Making it similar to a Camry

 

[etm33]

No heated seats
No keyless entry
No nav
No folddown seats

I think these make the cut. Heated seats because EV, keyless entry because that seems part of Tesla DNA and they can reimplement existing parts/tech, nav due to "no range anxiety", and folding seats due to utility gains.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I agree, similar to an A3 or a BMW 320i.
No power seats
No heated seats
No lumbar suppport
No leather
No keyless entry
No homelink
No moonroof
No nav
No folddown seats
No autodimming rear view mirror
No autodimming side view mirrors
etc.

Making it similar to a Camry

Similar, but not quite.

Keyless, because it's a Tesla.
Homelink, because the 2016 A3 has it.
Nav, because trip planner and range anxiety
Autodimming mirrors, because it's 2016.
Again....stop getting caught up in the price points of other brands, and start remembering that if Tesla wanted to make an econobox, they would have done that by now, or would have set your expectation that the Model 3 would be an econobox.

Musk hasn't done that.


If you really want a Camry, by all means, go by the most "beige" of all vehicles. I'll look for something a little more exciting. Musk seems to get that not everyone sees their car as a "tool", just an appliance to move you around. Some people actually enjoy vehicle ownership, and want something nice to look at, enjoy being in, and have the added benefit of being a little better of a neighbor to those around you.

 

[Max*]

I never said it's going to be an econobox, just that a base 320i doesn't have ANY of the things I listed and just because it's 2016 doesn't mean anything. The base 320i doesn't even have a backup camera as standard (sure, by the time the Model 3 is out, it'll be mandated by law, but nonetheless, it's 2016 ).

I haven't really looked into the A3 much, so I'll take your word for it.


A typical luxury automaker charges for just about everything. That's how they get their money. There have been several people talking about several random econobox's which have, for example, heated seats as standard. Or a backup camera as standard. Yet those same things get charged by luxury automakers, because it's easy money.

A barebones luxury car CAN have less features standard than a barebones econobox. Doesn't make them the same.


We'll find out in ~2 years.

- - - Updated - - -

ETA: The CLA doesn't have autodimming drivers or outside mirrors as standard. Nor does it have a backup camera as standard. Nor NAV. Nor keyless entry. Nor homelink. etc.

Again, the Model 3 is competing against other entry-level luxury brands. And looking at other entry-level luxury brands, a lot of stuff which might be included free on some econoboxes are all upsells.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I never said it's going to be an econobox, just that a base 320i doesn't have ANY of the things I listed and just because it's 2016 doesn't mean anything. The base 320i doesn't even have a backup camera as standard (sure, by the time the Model 3 is out, it'll be mandated by law, but nonetheless, it's 2016 ).

I haven't really looked into the A3 much, so I'll take your word for it.


A typical luxury automaker charges for just about everything. That's how they get their money. There have been several people talking about several random econobox's which have, for example, heated seats as standard. Or a backup camera as standard. Yet those same things get charged by luxury automakers, because it's easy money.

A barebones luxury car CAN have less features standard than a barebones econobox. Doesn't make them the same.


We'll find out in ~2 years.

- - - Updated - - -

ETA: The CLA doesn't have autodimming drivers or outside mirrors as standard. Nor does it have a backup camera as standard. Nor NAV. Nor keyless entry. Nor homelink. etc.

Again, the Model 3 is competing against other entry-level luxury brands. And looking at other entry-level luxury brands, a lot of stuff which might be included free on some econoboxes are all upsells.

I'm hoping we'll find out sooner than that...I'd love to know enough to make me want to put my deposit down on March 31st.

EM's got the whole "showmanship" thing down by now. I think we'll get enough info to pull in people who are on the fence about the Model 3......

And then we'll get crumbs of info until probably Spring 2017, when the Configurator page goes live, giving Tesla an idea about production runs and supplies to stock up on.

 

[TJunkers]

I started thinking about the whole supercharger network when it comes to the model 3. I wouldn't be surprised if the superchargers were exclusive for the model S/X. If Tesla puts a standard electric vehicle outlet on the model 3 it would be able to charge anywhere without the superchargers becoming a circus. Imagine what the lines would be like at the superchargers with model 3's everywhere.

 

[Max*]

I started thinking about the whole supercharger network when it comes to the model 3. I wouldn't be surprised if the superchargers were exclusive for the model S/X. If Tesla puts a standard electric vehicle outlet on the model 3 it would be able to charge anywhere without the superchargers becoming a circus. Imagine what the lines would be like at the superchargers with model 3's everywhere.

Or they continue to grow the SpC network at the rate it's growing now, and by the time the Model 3 is mass produced the supply should keep up with demand.

 

[AlanSqB]

No SpC is not going to happen. The network is a huge piece of the brand.

Teslas can already charge on "standard" J1772 outlets with an included adapter. The build out rate for SpC network will handle M3 volumes.