Base model 3 brakes onto a 2022 M3P

[gearchruncher]

I started a thread of M3P brake pad options a year ago:

M3P Comprehensive Brake Pad Option list

Wanted to start a list of brake pads that fit the stock M3P calipers, with approximate costs for a full front/rear set (As of June 2021): OEM: $650 OEM Track Pack: $1,000 Alphabetical: Carbotech: $440 - $600 (depending on compound) Endless EX90: $750 Endless EX99: $830 G-LOC: $470 - $600...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Motion122]

The same old story man. The companies who try to improve their pad technology and offer new compounds are slow to offer pads in the shape you need. The companies who offer lots of pad shapes don't ever improve their pad technology. Of course ferodo offers the 2500, but not the ds uno or 1.1. I wish porterfield would put out a modern compound. I like the ebc blue compound for light or low hp track use. I like the powerstop track day compound. It's cheap And works but doesn't last long. Hopefully more pads will be available soon!

Also, MPP offers pagids for the M3P:

Pagid RSL Track Brake Pads For Tesla Model 3

The ultimate endurance Tesla Model 3 Track Pads by Pagid. Developed for use with Big Brake Kits or Stock Calipers. Easy on rotors, long life, streetable.

www.mountainpassperformance.com

L8d

That is a private labeled pad from Pagid. Just like the PFC Z-rated pad UPP offers.

When there is enough interest Ferodo will make DS1.11 or more.

 

[The Other Dan]

Same deal for the front and rear. Caliper removal for pad replacement. The rear has the e brake built into the caliper so you will have to put it in the service mode or disconnect and remove the e brake motor itself.

Ferodo has DS2500 pads and Porterfield R4 is the other option. PFC has the pad shape but who know when they will offer the 08 or the 11 compound. Nothing from Pagid or Hawk.

Caliper removal for pad change?? I haven't looked at them, but I thought they were typical brembo style calipers where you remove the two pins and pull them out the top. No?
If not, that just adds more reason to do the Cadillac caliper/ BBK upgrade.

 

[gearchruncher]

If not, that just adds more reason to do the Cadillac caliper/ BBK upgrade.

The rears are the real pain, which the CTS front calipers don't fix.
But yes, the fronts have a stiffening bridge that requires caliper removal to replace pads.
Of course, you can buy a LOT of sets of pads for the price of a BBK.

 

[Lindenwood]

Honestly, removing the calipers is 5 minutes and two extra bolts so I am not really sure it’s that bad…

The rears also require caliper removal (an additional 5 minutes). Yes, it is tedious rigging up the 9v battery to unscrew the parking brake fully, but once you figure it out (and tape up a jig for future use) it doesn’t add much more time.

Also….

My wife was mad that I posted the picture she didn’t like…

So this is for her.

 

[tm1v2]

Honestly, removing the calipers is 5 minutes and two extra bolts so I am not really sure it’s that bad…

The rears also require caliper removal (an additional 5 minutes). Yes, it is tedious rigging up the 9v battery to unscrew the parking brake fully, but once you figure it out (and tape up a jig for future use) it doesn’t add much more time.

Also….

My wife was mad that I posted the picture she didn’t like…

So this is for her.

View attachment 861293

Lol she's awesome!

I would say if changing pads takes long, you're not doing enough track days.

Guess what...I'm not doing enough track days these days. As in, not any. I need to find some means of destroying these stock pads so I have an excuse to upgrade to something with more bite...maybe autocross...

A full caliper upgrade I really can't justify though, unless I actually were to track this thing. Props to all of you who are.

 

[gearchruncher]

I need to find some means of destroying these stock pads so I have an excuse to upgrade to something with more bite...maybe autocross...

Replace the stock pads before you completely destroy them. They're $$$, and if you ever sell the car you probably want to put them back on.
In my experience, you'll need about 300 autox runs to kill them. They're quite good actually.
Lots of track pads don't have more bite at street temps though, so don't do it for that reason.

 

[tm1v2]

Replace the stock pads before you completely destroy them. They're $$$, and if you ever sell the car you probably want to put them back on.
In my experience, you'll need about 300 autox runs to kill them. They're quite good actually.
Lots of track pads don't have more bite at street temps though, so don't do it for that reason.

I don't want track pads for the street, I just want something with more bite. But good to know the stock M3P pads actually hold up well to aggressive non-track use (autox). Certainly no fade or early wear issues for me in my street driving. I'm easy on my brakes in an EV, I try to mostly use regen, I just want them to bite hard on the occasions I really need them. It will take a very long time for my stock pads to wear out naturally with my driving.

The stock M3P pads haven't let me down, I don't feel like they lack stopping power for my use, they just don't have that bite that even some street pads do.

Putting in stock pads when selling the car - Do many car buyers really look for that or care? I guess someone out there does but I thought most car buyers don't really think about it, or just assume the pads are OEM or equivalent.

I wouldn't sell a car with track pads in it without disclosing that of course. (And it would only happen if the car was setup as a track rat...there would be a lot of disclosures in that case! Totally theoretical for me these days, no track time in my life currently.)

 

[gearchruncher]

The stock M3P pads haven't let me down, I don't feel like they lack stopping power for my use, they just don't have that bite that even some street pads do.

The stock pads are really very good, and I set many, many FTD's on them even on very sticky tires. I've never once wished for more.

There are few M3P pads out there. You're gonna have to go with the street Carbotech or g-locs if you want a chance at a street-able pad with more bite. I can tell you for sure the RB XT910's don't have more bite, but are way dustier.

 

[MasterC17]

Same deal for the front and rear. Caliper removal for pad replacement. The rear has the e brake built into the caliper so you will have to put it in the service mode or disconnect and remove the e brake motor itself.

Ferodo has DS2500 pads and Porterfield R4 is the other option. PFC has the pad shape but who know when they will offer the 08 or the 11 compound. Nothing from Pagid or Hawk.

Front Base Calipers do not require removal for pad replacement. Remove the pins and the bridge and the pads slide right out. Similar deal in the rear compared to the Performance calipers. Remove the two 14mm bolts and the floating caliper comes off of the bracket, much easier than dealing with the two E18's and the entire heavy steel bracket.

The easiest way to deal with the electronic parking brakes is to put the car in "Tow Mode", which will retract them slightly. If you are replacing new OE pads with new aftermarket this should be all you need. If you are replacing worn pads, use a 9V battery to retract the parking brake motor all of the way. Then, just push the piston in. Removing the motor should be a last resort as a result of something going wrong.

There's no doubt that the Base Calipers are a bit easier to deal with when it comes to pad changes, but I certainly would not be downgrading to them. Even with upgraded pads and rotors, the Performance brakes get very hot and are on the edge of 'comfortable' in a car with this much mass. That extra thermal mass you will lose from the smaller rotor is not worth it, unless you are going to be using the Base front caliper with MPP's 365mm BBK Upgrade - that would actually be an improvement over the factory Performance front. Keep in mind that both the OE rotors are pretty awful when it comes to pumping air.

 

[SK360]

The stock pads are really very good, and I set many, many FTD's on them even on very sticky tires. I've never once wished for more.

There are few M3P pads out there. You're gonna have to go with the street Carbotech or g-locs if you want a chance at a street-able pad with more bite. I can tell you for sure the RB XT910's don't have more bite, but are way dustier.

Same. I let my buddy with the GT3 drive my car in fun runs and he kept saying he’s surprised how much brake the car has… And that’s stock pads and rotors.

 

[gearchruncher]

Even with upgraded pads and rotors, the Performance brakes get very hot and are on the edge of 'comfortable' in a car with this much mass.

I just haven't experienced this. The only issue I have ever had is fluid fade after I ran 6 AutoX laps back to back without any break in-between. Unless you are actually doing track laps, the stock brakes are far from on the "edge of comfortable."

Also, mass is not what defines brake need. Brakes don't absorb mass. They absorb kinetic energy, and you need larger brakes to absorb more KE per unit of time. The rate that the car gains kinetic energy is tied to the horsepower of a car, not the mass. You can have tiny brakes on a 10,000lb car if it has a 80 HP motor. Meanwhile a 2000lb race car with 750 HP needs some serious brakes.

This is why people say the Plaid us underbraked but the standard Model S is not. They weight the same. But the brakes in one are trying to deal with 1000HP, which really no street car before has reliably had.

 

[drpheta]

Aren't the performance brakes lighter than the long range ones?

 

[gearchruncher]

Aren't the performance brakes lighter than the long range ones?

Yes, front rotors are about 0.8 lbs lighter (~4%). Tesla achieves this by using a two piece design which allows for a lighter center hat. I don't think anyone has actually done a MMOI measurement on them to see which has a higher MMOI (which is what matters for how much rotational KE they store).

 

[MasterC17]

I just haven't experienced this. The only issue I have ever had is fluid fade after I ran 6 AutoX laps back to back without any break in-between. Unless you are actually doing track laps, the stock brakes are far from on the "edge of comfortable."

Also, mass is not what defines brake need. Brakes don't absorb mass. They absorb kinetic energy, and you need larger brakes to absorb more KE per unit of time. The rate that the car gains kinetic energy is tied to the horsepower of a car, not the mass. You can have tiny brakes on a 10,000lb car if it has a 80 HP motor. Meanwhile a 2000lb race car with 750 HP needs some serious brakes.

This is why people say the Plaid us underbraked but the standard Model S is not. They weight the same. But the brakes in one are trying to deal with 1000HP, which really no street car before has reliably had.

Sorry, I should have specified on a road-course. You are right, for AutoX they are more than adequate. On a road course however, they're not particularly confidence inspiring after several minutes of abuse. That's just my experience, though, and others may feel differently.

 

[dfwatt]

Has anyone ever put standard model 3 brakes onto a 2022 model 3 performance that comes with the red brembo brakes? I mean replacing the rotors, calipers, pads with normal model 3 standard or long range parts.

Thanks!

Level8Drummer

I've seen a lot of strange ideas floated on this forum over the years but this one takes the cake. In what Universe would this give you any benefit? You're talking about voiding the warranty, deteriorating the stopping power and the heat tolerance and heat dissipation of the system which is probably marginal given the 4000 lbs weight of the car even with the performance brakes, spending a whole lot of money to boot because no one's going to give you their standard braking system so where in the world are you coming from with this? And if you're in an accident and they find out that you've downgraded your brakes there's a decent chance you might be deemed at fault even if that's erroneous. This is like somebody asking if anybody shot themselves in the foot because they are thinking about it and want to know what that's like?

 

[gearchruncher]

And if you're in an accident and they find out that you've downgraded your brakes there's a decent chance you might be deemed at fault even if that's erroneous.

I've heard a lot of strange ideas floated on this form, but this one takes the cake. There is a DECENT chance you will be found guilty for driving a Tesla in EXACTLY the same configuration that Tesla sells the car? Tesla sold the M3P-, which was a M3P but with standard AWD brakes, the exact brakes in discussion here.

Show me a law that says you can't "downgrade" brakes on a car to what is otherwise a completely OEM/FVMSS compliant setup, and then explain how this doesn't happen all the time as people use non-OEM brake pads and rotors on their car.

(Not that dfwatt will see this...)

 

[SK360]

I've seen a lot of strange ideas floated on this forum over the years but this one takes the cake. In what Universe would this give you any benefit? You're talking about voiding the warranty, deteriorating the stopping power and the heat tolerance and heat dissipation of the system which is probably marginal given the 4000 lbs weight of the car even with the performance brakes, spending a whole lot of money to boot because no one's going to give you their standard braking system so where in the world are you coming from with this? And if you're in an accident and they find out that you've downgraded your brakes there's a decent chance you might be deemed at fault even if that's erroneous. This is like somebody asking if anybody shot themselves in the foot because they are thinking about it and want to know what that's like?

Tell me you didn't read the whole thread without telling me you didn't read the whole thread.