Battery 3.0 Upgrade

[PhilMantel]

Tesla told me that the 3.0 Battery Upgrade is not Supercharging or CHAdeMO capable. What's the point?

Here is my response:
When is Tesla going to have a battery upgrade that is Supercharging or CHAdeMO capable? I hope Tesla realizes this pretty much tethers Roadster users to their homes. This completely goes against Tesla’s vision for the future since all chargers do not even support Roadsters then. This is Tesla’s coming out vehicle and made Tesla what they are today. Elon Musk said how the Roadster would be the future, but Tesla has constrained it to 3 year dinosaur. I am very disappointed.

Is Tesla going to come out with a Supercharing or CHAdeMO capable battery in the future? This would be very easy, because all you would need are bigger gauge wires between the battery and the charging port.

Tesla response to my response:
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately we do not have any additional information regarding the future capabilities of the Roadster. We have notated your feedback and we hope to be able to offer you more improvements with the Roadster in the future.

 

[markwj]

Tesla have said on countless occasions that Supercharging will not be available for the roadster.

There is a third-party Chademo option.

 

[ecarfan]

Is Tesla going to come out with a Supercharing or CHAdeMO capable battery in the future? This would be very easy, because all you would need are bigger gauge wires between the battery and the charging port.

This has been discussed many times on TMC. Search the Roadster forums and you will find it.

Tesla will never offer Supercharging for the Roadster. Period. And I am fine with that.

I have the 3.0 battery. Totally worth it for me. There are threads about the 3.0 battery that are easy to find if you look for them.

 

[supersnoop]

The whole reason they made a longer range battery is because they can't add supercharging. Okay, maybe not the "whole" reason, but a big part of it. With a 400 mile range, how much supercharging do you really need?

 

[ggr]

Last weekend I took the Roadster on a circle drive from San Diego, through Borrego Springs, Anza-Borrego Desert Park, Agua Calente, Ocotillo, and back. About 240 miles, open top, great music, very little traffic, just a beautiful drive through the desert. Stopped once to water a cactus. Took nearly 4 hours, cheapest per-hour entertainment besides reading. Priceless.

 

[ecarfan]

The whole reason they made a longer range battery is because they can't add supercharging. Okay, maybe not the "whole" reason, but a big part of it. With a 400 mile range, how much supercharging do you really need?

The 3.0 battery only offers a "400 mile range" if you limit your speed to maybe 45 mph. At 100% charge the Ideal Range is about 344-346 miles and you won't get that unless you drive no more than about 55mph on a level road with no headwind.

I believe the main reason Tesla offered the 3.0 battery is because the original cells that were used are no longer available and modern cells are more energy dense.

 

[hcsharp]

The poll question is hard to answer. For me it's worth it, but not right now. I'll probably do it next year. A lot of Roadster owners are in the same camp. So how does someone in my situation answer the poll?

 

[hcsharp]

Is Tesla going to come out with a Supercharing or CHAdeMO capable battery in the future? This would be very easy, because all you would need are bigger gauge wires between the battery and the charging port.

I can sympathize with your desire for supercharging. I think most of us would rather have that feature than the 3.0 battery.

A lot of people think implementing supercharging would "be very easy." Most people are not aware of the level of validation that's required for a change like that. It would take a tremendous amount of testing to determine what rate of supercharging could be handled by the cooling system and the cells. It would take a lot of firmware changes and further testing. The 1.5s might need a whole new VMS. The ESS would have to be disassembled and a new contactor installed. A whole new inlet with serial communication and translation from the Roadster CAN bus which is different from the Model S. As much as we all might want it, it's not realistic for Tesla to take on a project of this magnitude right now when they are trying to accelerate the Model 3 release. But that's already been discussed...

 

[gregd]

So given no Super Charging, how big/heavy would a portable inverter be? 400 VDC to 240 VAC at the full 70 amps? 2-ish hours at a super charger wouldn't be a big burden with so few Roadsters, and probably not much different than a MS 100 trying for 100% charge. But it would yield enough to get to the next SC, or to that destination that's just outside range.

 

[Msjulie]

The poll question is hard to answer. For me it's worth it, but not right now. I'll probably do it next year. A lot of Roadster owners are in the same camp. So how does someone in my situation answer the poll?

I feel this way too - I really have no need to do it as most of my driving is well within where a charge can take me but I also have a somewhat irrational feeling of wanting to avoid even the once in a while range anxiety feeling ... and I also feel like I should wait till the existing battery has degraded more but maybe there is no waste in returning a reasonable battery...

 

[Habious]

The whole reason they made a longer range battery is because they can't add supercharging. Okay, maybe not the "whole" reason, but a big part of it. With a 400 mile range, how much supercharging do you really need?

While I understand that supercharging isn't reasonable to do...I would be THRILLED if they simply installed and HPC or an HPWC (heck, even a 14-50 would make my day) at all of the Supercharging stations.

The supercharging network (the locations themselves) are reasonably located and spaced out. I just need to have some way, ANY way, to charge when I get there.

 

[PhilMantel]

It is very easy for people from CA or similar people on the grid to say, "oh yeah, totally worth it!", but it is such a bias response. I feel as though people who have already put the $30k (oh yeah, $29k, but there is tax...) don't want to feel as though they were a schmuck or got their feelgoods hurt.

My issue is where I am from (Chattanooga, TN) and the five cities I go to for business is currently outside of range for my Roadster for back and forth. Chattanooga is central to Atlanta, Nashville, Knoxville, Birmingham, and Knoxville and all appr. 2 hours away. So, yes, I will probably have to pay for the upgrade and will be close to empty when back home. Despite the upgrade, I still may not make it when going back and forth to Nashville or Birmingham (I drive the roadster the way it was created to be driven), so I will need to use a Leaf charger.

The only Roaster charging stations would be J1772, so this leaves me tethered to my home with a combo of road anxiety in some cases if I want to have a day vs. two day business trip. A quick little supercharging or CHAdeMO top off on the way there or back would be perfect!

Furthermore, doesn't this make Tesla embarrassed to have their flagship vehicle bound to Nissan Leaf chargers! There may be a chance for HPC or HPCW for you westcoasters, but it will never happen for us eastcoasters.

 

[wiztecy]

Phil, I take it you do own a Roadster. What year is it? I have a 2008 / 1.5 built in 2009, some people have a 2011, latest being built in Dec 2011. So that makes this vehicle 5 to 8 years old. You do understand that right? How many car manufactures support their 5 to 8 year old vehicles, making them much better and usable over time like Tesla is with the Roadster? When fuel injection came out did the auto manufactures offer any upgrade where you can take your car to their dealer and have them retro-fit your old carburetor technology with the latest fuel efficient and more reliable computer controlled fuel injection technology? How much do you think that type of retrofit would cost them as well as you to implement correctly and safely?

Secondly, you do know the Roadster's battery pack has to be hand built don't you? This takes quite some time and a good bit of safety precaution and expertise to do. You can't pick up some random college kid off the street with some basic automotive repair knowledge to do this. All of this cost money which the supplier will not and can not survive in the free market if they're giving this away below their cost needed to produce and install it.

Lastly, you do understand that only 2500 of the Tesla Roadsters were made. That's not much at all. That drives cost up on any product made for it and many company's won't even play with supporting a one off low production entity at all.

I can say this, Phil if you can produce me a battery pack that goes over 300 miles, won't burn my house down, and will last 5 to 10 years at a cost under $29,000 plus tax, please let me know and put me on your reservation list.

I can say I'm still pleased in this line from Tesla's response to you below. It does not mean they will be coming out big or cool for the Roadster, but it does show that there is still love and support for them. For me just supporting my Roadster allowing it to stay on the road, keeping a stock of replacement parts available to keep it on the road, and supplying a battery packs with higher capacity and less weight is all I'm asking and needing for this car.

I also love and support the Roadster.

Sometimes a car may not fit perfectly into your lifestyle. If it does not you have a couple of options:

1) Keep the car and enjoy and appreciate it for all of its strengths while buying a car that meets your everyday lifestyle routine.

2) Sell the car for that you feel its weaknesses outweigh its strengths due to your changing lifestyle and pick up the latest technology that is in line with your current and growing needs.


===================
"We have notated your feedback and we hope to be able to offer you more improvements with the Roadster in the future."
===================

--------
Tesla response to my response:
Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately we do not have any additional information regarding the future capabilities of the Roadster. We have notated your feedback and we hope to be able to offer you more improvements with the Roadster in the future.

 

[PhilMantel]

Mine is 2011 and my dream car. New to the forum and just trying to get some chatter going and trying to get some intelligent responses such as yours.

My personality is a bit of an internal contradicting one and as I put in a later post, I will more than likely get the battery upgrade (I am an outlier for the practicality of getting it, with noted disappointments, which is also laid out in the later post).

 

[wiztecy]

Phil we all appreciate your opinion and contributions. Without it, conglomeratly we wouldn't have a forum

One thing that any forum member has to understand (really learn), is that we all have opinions and should have respect for them, we all also have passions and emotions for one thing that we love and come together on. Everyone's point is valid, and taking in everyone's point with an open mind puts you into a better place.

Nice to hear its your dreamcar. Its one amazing piece that was designed and put together with passion and pride that's for sure.

By the way, welcome to the forum! That should have been my first line replying to your post if I had remembered my proper manners

 

[supersnoop]

It is very easy for people from CA or similar people on the grid to say, "oh yeah, totally worth it!", but it is such a bias response. I feel as though people who have already put the $30k (oh yeah, $29k, but there is tax...) don't want to feel as though they were a schmuck or got their feelgoods hurt.

My issue is where I am from (Chattanooga, TN) and the five cities I go to for business is currently outside of range for my Roadster for back and forth. Chattanooga is central to Atlanta, Nashville, Knoxville, Birmingham, and Knoxville and all appr. 2 hours away. So, yes, I will probably have to pay for the upgrade and will be close to empty when back home. Despite the upgrade, I still may not make it when going back and forth to Nashville or Birmingham (I drive the roadster the way it was created to be driven), so I will need to use a Leaf charger.

The only Roaster charging stations would be J1772, so this leaves me tethered to my home with a combo of road anxiety in some cases if I want to have a day vs. two day business trip. A quick little supercharging or CHAdeMO top off on the way there or back would be perfect!

Furthermore, doesn't this make Tesla embarrassed to have their flagship vehicle bound to Nissan Leaf chargers! There may be a chance for HPC or HPCW for you westcoasters, but it will never happen for us eastcoasters.

What's a "leaf" charger? Or are you just trying to put some sort of negative spin on public charging stations?

 

[hcsharp]

The only Roaster charging stations would be J1772, so this leaves me tethered to my home with a combo of road anxiety in some cases if I want to have a day vs. two day business trip. A quick little supercharging or CHAdeMO top off on the way there or back would be perfect!

Furthermore, doesn't this make Tesla embarrassed to have their flagship vehicle bound to Nissan Leaf chargers! There may be a chance for HPC or HPCW for you westcoasters, but it will never happen for us eastcoasters.

I just took a 1200 mile trip across Canada and NY state and don't think I used any "Leaf chargers" but frankly I'm not really sure what you mean by that. We used mostly Sun Country Highway stations (most were 70A) and Tesla Destination chargers (slowest was 64A). We couldn't have made the trip in a Leaf. They only charge at 30A (except CHAdeMO, only one of which was on our route) and can't use the Destination chargers at all.

 

[ecarfan]

It is very easy for people from CA or similar people on the grid to say, "oh yeah, totally worth it!", but it is such a bias response.

Phil, you asked a question, and I gave my answer from my perspective. The 3.0 battery was definitely worth it for me. I can't speak for you.

My issue is where I am from (Chattanooga, TN) and the five cities I go to for business is currently outside of range for my Roadster for back and forth. Chattanooga is central to Atlanta, Nashville, Knoxville, Birmingham, and Knoxville and all appr. 2 hours away. So, yes, I will probably have to pay for the upgrade and will be close to empty when back home. Despite the upgrade, I still may not make it when going back and forth to Nashville or Birmingham (I drive the roadster the way it was created to be driven), so I will need to use a Leaf charger.

And now you have added new information about your situation which was not included in your original post. Based on your description, I would not recommend you buy a Roadster for the type of travel you describe.

The only Roaster charging stations would be J1772, so this leaves me tethered to my home with a combo of road anxiety in some cases if I want to have a day vs. two day business trip. A quick little supercharging or CHAdeMO top off on the way there or back would be perfect!

Yes, IF the Roadster could Supercharge that would indeed "be perfect". But it was designed about 6 years before the Supercharger network existed. Less than 2,500 Roadsters were sold, the last ones in 2012 in Europe. The first Supercharger station opened in the US in October 2012.

I appreciate that you really would like to own a Roadster, and congratulate you on your excellent taste. However, you appear to want a version of the Roadster (with fast DC charging) that does not exist. That is why I am advising against your purchasing one. But don't let me stop you, I'm just a random guy on the Internet.

Furthermore, doesn't this make Tesla embarrassed to have their flagship vehicle bound to Nissan Leaf chargers!

I do not agree with your characterization of the Roadster as being Tesla's "flagship vehicle". It was the first car designed and produced by Tesla back at a time when Tesla was a tiny company with very limited financial resources.

Here is one definition of the word flagship: "any of the best or largest ships or airplanes operated by a passenger line." (www.dictionary.com)

In 2016 Tesla's "flagship" products are the Model S and X.

 

[PhilMantel]

I have one, but just think the practical use of the battery upgrade should only apply to me

Yes, I used the wrong word when using "flagship", but I think you know what I mean. I pretty much meant the vehicle that gave Tesla the traction to become the amazing/profitable company it is today (use your dictionary or fast knowledge of vocabulary to find the right word for me please). Always stay true to your roots, even if it is a 1.5 "Very Orange" one

Of course the 3.0 was a no-brainer for your little 1.5 Roadster. For a 2.5 Sport it's a different matter

 

[PhilMantel]

What's a "leaf" charger? Or are you just trying to put some sort of negative spin on public charging stations?

I'm from the deep south where there are no Roadsters, so yes, all we have around here are Leafs and they are actually called "Leaf Chargers" (you know, like a Xerox is a copy and Kleenex is tissue paper).

Want them to be called Roadster chargers