Battery and cabin heating included in Wh/km?

[jerry33]

Yes 60D.

Part of the problem is that my car will not charge using my regular outlet in my garage.
the first day it worked. it pulled about 4 miles/hour. it was awesome. I woke up the next day with a full battery, and my real range was probably about 150-160 miles per charge.

since the first day, however, I can't get my car to charge using the trickle charger.

the car will start to charge and within a few minutes it says "charging interrupted"

Charging interrupted typically means a voltage sag. Is anything else on that circuit? It could also mean a bad connection somewhere. The first place to check is the receptacle. Next is the circuit breaker. I'm assuming you are not using anything between the UMC and the wall.

 

[Zapped]

Try plugging in your car, note the time to fill, then turn on your heater and see the time to fill increase. I was surprised; at -15F the time went from 4 hours to 20 hours with a 200v 30A circuit

Assuming 60 kW of energy was consumed (calculated based on how long to recharge back to "full" setting) and you drove 150 miles @ 300 Wh = 45 kW, then 15 kW went to heat the vehicle while not moving. This is somewhat oversimplified and doesn't consider charge efficiency. Assuming similar driving habits ( same wind, same tire pressure) , a summer consumption of 200 Wh / mile then 15 kW can be assumed to be used for heat, etc. while driving. Basically 100 Wh / mile for heating.

Therefore it probably makes sense to drive faster in the winter. ( heat the cabin for a shorter period of time)

 

[Doubletap67]

Yes 60D.

Part of the problem is that my car will not charge using my regular outlet in my garage.
the first day it worked. it pulled about 4 miles/hour. it was awesome. I woke up the next day with a full battery, and my real range was probably about 150-160 miles per charge.

since the first day, however, I can't get my car to charge using the trickle charger.

the car will start to charge and within a few minutes it says "charging interrupted"
I've tried everything, but the charging always interrupts within seconds.
then my car becomes cold soaked through the night
and I lose a lot of range heating the battery the next morning
then my car gets cold soaked all day
then I use a lot of range heating the battery after work.

so as example:
yesterday I charged at supercharger. had 215 miles of range and a warm cabin and warm battery.
20 degrees (minus 6.7C) but a lot of wind.
drove 19.9 miles.
but my car said I had 187 miles of charge remaining. (so I used 28 miles of charge to go 20 miles)
hooked car up to my trickle charger. immediately got interrupted
woke up this morning and I think I had like 180 miles. (so lost 7 miles while "parked" overnight)
drove 14.2 miles. charge went down to 159 miles. (so used 21 miles of charge to go 14.2 miles)

so looks like I use aobut 3 miles of charge to drive 2 miles.
215/3*2=143

My guess is that I'll get FAR better range once Xcel energy hooks up the 200 Amp service in the garage.
(it's all been done for 2 weeks, and simply waiting for Xcel energy to hook it up... the utility pole is probably 10 feet away. argh!)
because then I can start each day with a toasty warm car with a warm battery!

Got it. I wonder if the overhead processes that need to happen to charge a cold battery are greater draws than the minimum that the onboard charger will allow with only 12 A / 120 V. Presumably though you've got home from a supercharger with a warm car and battery and it's still failed to charge?

The only charging warning I've ever seen was with my overnight test drive car when I was at a chargepoint with the J1772 adapter. Car told me an extension cable was detected and cut the charge rate in half.

 

[JRMW]

I'm assuming you are not using anything between the UMC and the wall.

Initially on first day I did use an extension cord (charging worked fine)
Then after it stopped working I ditched the extension
I've used 3 receptacles. None work more than an hour
(That said my car has charged for 1.5 hours as we speak, gaining 4 miles!)

Only other thing on current receptacle is garage door opener. But that is closed and stays closed all night

But my guess is entire garage circuit is crap.

It'll be fine once Xcel energy gets out here (I hope)

Presumably though you've got home from a supercharger with a warm car and battery and it's still failed to charge?

Yep. Failed immediately

Thanks for all your help.

The only thing that makes this an issue at all is
1) I'm cheap and don't want to sign up for Charge Point
2) nearest Supercharger is 20 miles away
3) Minneapolis is so cold that my effective range is 130 or 140 miles

 

[Boatguy]

Won't all of the above show in Wh/km though?

Wh/mi only accounts for power consumption while driving. All power consumed while in Park just silently disappears from the battery with no accounting.

I've seen my MS lose 12 rated miles (RM) parked for 3hrs on a hot day when it decided to cool the cabin/battery on it's own. Presumably some of the opposite also happens (i.e., heating when in cold weather). This consumption is entirely unaccounted for in the Wh/mi.

Further, cold weather causes your battery, exclusive of cabin and battery heating, to be able to deliver less power. I haven't quantified it on the MS, but in my BMW i3, it's about a 10% reduction in usable capacity here in San Francisco where the winters are reasonably moderate (lows of 5-8C and 13C during the day) by Vancouver standards.

 

[Doubletap67]

Wh/mi only accounts for power consumption while driving. All power consumed while in Park just silently disappears from the battery with no accounting.

I've seen my MS lose 12 rated miles (RM) parked for 3hrs on a hot day when it decided to cool the cabin/battery on it's own. Presumably some of the opposite also happens (i.e., heating when in cold weather). This consumption is entirely unaccounted for in the Wh/mi.

Further, cold weather causes your battery, exclusive of cabin and battery heating, to be able to deliver less power. I haven't quantified it on the MS, but in my BMW i3, it's about a 10% reduction in usable capacity here in San Francisco where the winters are reasonably moderate (lows of 5-8C and 13C during the day) by Vancouver standards.

Wow. There's automated heating and cooling of the cabin?

I get the reduced capacity at lower battery temp but unsure how this is displayed in consumption.

 

[jerry33]

Wow. There's automated heating and cooling of the cabin?

There is a preconditioning setting that you can turn on. It guesses when you're going to start driving. Sometimes it doesn't guess so well.

I get the reduced capacity at lower battery temp but unsure how this is displayed in consumption.

Capacity is not the same thing as consumption. In cold weather batteries lose capacity but don't actually consume any electricity.

 

[Doubletap67]

There is a preconditioning setting that you can turn on. It guesses when you're going to start driving. Sometimes it doesn't guess so well.


Capacity is not the same thing as consumption. In cold weather batteries lose capacity but don't actually consume any electricity.

Totally understand the distinction. And good reminder about the preconditioning, I think I turned that on.