BATTERY & CHARGING (Quick Reference)

[animorph]

No we are definitely not good so far. Why in the world would you charge from 150 to 300 miles at the first supercharger if it's 150 miles to the second supercharger? At the first supercharger you charge until you have 200 rated miles regardless of whether you arrive with 50 rated miles or 150 rated miles. The amount of time at the first supercharger to go from 150 to 200 is less than to go from 50 to 200 and everything beyond the first supercharger is identical because you are arriving at the second supercharger with 50 rated miles in either case.

Now are we good?

Exactly.

And exactly as Tony quoted me. Tony, you're adding 150 additional RM even if you already have 150 RM in the battery, for a total of 300 RM. Why? All you need to add is the 50 mile reserve in that case. At the same speed as you'll the last 50 RM if you arrive with 50 RM. That gives you 200 RM and you're ready to go. And when you've added 50 RM and reached 200 RM SOC (150 RM at arrival + 50 RM added), the car will be telling you it's charged enough to reach the next SC. Both cases should be leaving with 200 RM.

 

[SigNC]

Agreed gregincal, I get the whole idea of showing up a a SC with 50 miles range so you charge faster. However, showing up at the same SC with 150 miles of range if you charged too 100% when you didn't need to the night before would still get you on your way to the next supercharger sooner than showing up with 50 miles of range. Sure you aren't adding miles in as fast but you also don't need to add as many miles to get to the next charger (which you'd plan on getting to with 50 miles of range.

 

[TonyWilliams]

No we are definitely not good so far. Why in the world would you charge from 150 to 300 miles at the first supercharger if it's 150 miles to the second supercharger? At the first supercharger you charge until you have 200 rated miles regardless of whether you arrive with 50 rated miles or 150 rated miles. The amount of time at the first supercharger to go from 150 to 200 is less than to go from 50 to 200 and everything beyond the first supercharger is identical because you are arriving at the second supercharger with 50 rated miles in either case.

Now are we good?

If the first charger is 150 miles away, you don’t have enough range to reach the second one 300 miles away with 50 miles to spare. You must charge, even if you started from full.

The two extremes in charging time, from most efficient to most inefficient (in terms of time) are 110 total minutes (about 2 hours) up to 245 minutes (about 4 hours) to cover the 1010 mile trip (about 17 hours driving). This is the absolute most miles anybody might travel in 24 hours up to the 99.999 percentile.

Either 19 hours (17 hours travel + 2 hours charging)
Up to 21 hours (17 hours travel + 4 hours charging)

I think we are on the same page, since I’m not suggesting charging from 150 to 300 miles was the “best”. Quite the opposite, as described above... it adds about 2 hours to the trip. I just stated both extremes in time; from lowest charge time to the highest charge time... again, 110 minutes up to 245 minutes.

I think we’ll make progress from here, since we have nailed down most variables. There are only two additional variables to considered to make (or fail to make) my point:

1) at what starting charge rate is fastest to complete the trip?

2) how far away is that first Supercharger (even if they are all 150 miles apart)?

 

[gregincal]

If the first charger is 150 miles away, you don’t have enough range to reach the second one 300 miles away with 50 miles to spare. You must charge, even if you started from full.

The two extremes in charging time, from most efficient to most inefficient (in terms of time) are 110 total minutes (about 2 hours) up to 245 minutes (about 4 hours) to cover the 1010 mile trip (about 17 hours driving). This is the absolute most miles anybody might travel in 24 hours up to the 99.999 percentile.

Either 19 hours (17 hours travel + 2 hours charging)
Up to 21 hours (17 hours travel + 4 hours charging)

I think we are on the same page, since I’m not suggesting charging from 150 to 300 miles was the “best”. Quite the opposite, as described above... it adds about 2 hours to the trip. I just stated both extremes in time; from lowest charge time to the highest charge time... again, 110 minutes up to 245 minutes.

I think we’ll make progress from here, since we have nailed down most variables. There are only two additional variables to considered to make (or fail to make) my point:

1) at what starting charge rate is fastest to complete the trip?

2) how far away is that first Supercharger (even if they are all 150 miles apart)?

In your above example I did say that you would charge at the first charger. If you had 310 rated miles at 100% in the theoretical example you would arrive with 160 rated miles and want to top it up to 200 miles (adding 40 miles). This would allow you to reach the next supercharger 150 miles away with 50 miles left.

The only point I'm making is that when leaving home you are always better off with a 100% charge. How much you want to charge when you are at a supercharger can depend on a variety of factors, although generally to minimize time you want to charge only enough so as to arrive at the next supercharger with the lowest state of charge you are comfortable with.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I agree with your position. Hopefully, this simple graphic illustrates your assertion that the first leg should be 100%:

 

[Oldguyngal]

Hi,
Good Catch, Thank You for letting me know about this.
I originally got this from a model 3 manual a couple months ago on the Internet: Page 52
Tesla Model 3 Owners Manual Hits Internet In PDF Form

Since then I downloaded a more current manual
And after checking, that feature is NOT in the updated manual.

This is why I posted my SUMMARY so that any errors can be pointed out to me, and I thank You
Very much for the correction.

Just trying to prepare myself for the Model 3 delivery in (APR-JUN)!!

Thanks Again
Doug

 

[Oldguyngal]

Thanks lasdoug for posting the Owners Manual in PDF. Like you, I am a newbie and I have many questions so I will read the manual first before wasting everyone's time. Good job!!

 

[T34ME]

I understand the concept that charging rate slows significantly with regards to Superchargers. Does the same concept apply to home charging?

 

[mblakele]

I understand the concept that charging rate slows significantly with regards to Superchargers. Does the same concept apply to home charging?

Generally no, because home chargers offer much less power. Say you have a 14-50 at home: 9.6-kW. According to the chart in post #12 you shouldn't see any taper until something like 95% SoC. Most people won't charge that high most of the time. But if you ever need to get close to 100%, you might notice that it slows down.

What's the max non-DCFC for TM3, about 17-kW? Even then you should get to 90% before it starts to taper.

 

[SigNC]

What's the max non-DCFC for TM3, about 17-kW?

11.5kW I believe.

 

[lasdoug]

Being new to the EV world and expecting my Model 3 (APR-JUN 2018), I have been
gaining as much knowledge as possible about the Model 3 (Battery & Charging). I have compiled
a (Quick Reference) which I will keep in the car and view as needed.
If your new to EV World like myself, I hope this Quick Reference will be of help to you.
If your a OLD TIMER EV USER, please check my Quick Reference Info, and please let me know if
you find any of my info is incorrect. Also, if you have additional info that you think a NEWBIE should know
about (Battery & Charging), please let me know. Thanks

UPDATED (Quick Reference) Chart 3-8-18

 

[lasdoug]

Thanks lasdoug for posting the Owners Manual in PDF. Like you, I am a newbie and I have many questions so I will read the manual first before wasting everyone's time. Good job!!

Appreciate That (OLDGUYGUYNGAL) just tryin to compile info that us NEWBIES need to Know!!!

 

[lasdoug]

Being new to the EV world and expecting my Model 3 (APR-JUN 2018), I have been
gaining as much knowledge as possible about the Model 3 (Battery & Charging). I have compiled
a (Quick Reference) which I will keep in the car and view as needed.
If your new to EV World like myself, I hope this Quick Reference will be of help to you.
If your a OLD TIMER EV USER, please check my Quick Reference Info, and please let me know if
you find any of my info is incorrect. Also, if you have additional info that you think a NEWBIE should know
about (Battery & Charging), please let me know. Thanks

1 PAGE VERSION of CHARGING (Quick Reference)