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Battery charging rates w/ made in china

16tablets

Member
Jan 21, 2021
24
7
UK
Evening,

I just watched this interesting comparison video
of the model 3 made in China vs USA.

Most of it seems harmless and hopefully a better build quality but the concerning part was regarding the battery. Does anyone have any specific information regarding the battery and charging rates? I feel somewhat concerned if the comments in the video are true.

Thanks
 

Adopado

Active Member
Aug 19, 2019
4,534
3,422
Scotland
Evening,

I just watched this interesting comparison video
of the model 3 made in China vs USA.

Most of it seems harmless and hopefully a better build quality but the concerning part was regarding the battery. Does anyone have any specific information regarding the battery and charging rates? I feel somewhat concerned if the comments in the video are true.

Thanks

Bjorn Nyland on Youtube has some videos of testing a refreshed M3 that appears to have been a Chinese model. Edit: Not sure is it was Chinese when I think about it ...
 
Last edited:

26ct2143

Member
Nov 22, 2020
218
92
Burton-on-Trent, UK
I bet the weather is warmer in china than in UK.
So wouldn't notice anything.
I watched another video that reckoned the CATL battery was not very good in cold weather (worse than the fremont batteries)
 
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16tablets

Member
Jan 21, 2021
24
7
UK
That's my concern, we've got snow today!

If the battery is different, then isn't that mis-selling? If you buy an item based on the spec advertised online, and then get delivered something else - surely they need to advise the customer? I'm all for better build quality but not at the expense of arguable the most important bit...the battery! :-/
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,403
UK, Milton Keynes
That's my concern, we've got snow today!

If the battery is different, then isn't that mis-selling? If you buy an item based on the spec advertised online, and then get delivered something else - surely they need to advise the customer? I'm all for better build quality but not at the expense of arguable the most important bit...the battery! :-/

what part of the spec detailed online by Tesla does this other battery not meet?
 

16tablets

Member
Jan 21, 2021
24
7
UK
what part of the spec detailed online by Tesla does this other battery not meet?

Hey,

As I said I don't have specific battery information but would love to see some comparisons. If there aren't any real world differences then great!

My concerns over those advertised by Tesla would be 360 (WLTP) range, if MIC batteries are further adversely effected by cold then does that mean their range is below other model 3's of a similar age/type for the 6 colder months of the year. Can they charge up to 172 miles in 15minutes at the same temperatures, etc. The other stats would be from research and reviews online, which formed part of the decision to buy. I don't know much about cars but I doubt you'd see noticeable differences between range, performance or spec (ie: door trim) of two petrol cars made within the same 6 month period - you'd expect to receive what you ordered.

I don't mean to knock Tesla, given I've just ordered one, but when spending this amount of money you'd hope to be given all the information at the purchase point, not when you collect the car. Maybe its much about nothing and really the differences aren't noticeable, it would be good to get word from Tesla or someone in the know of the differences/impact.
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,403
UK, Milton Keynes
Hey,

As I said I don't have specific battery information but would love to see some comparisons. If there aren't any real world differences then great!

My concerns over those advertised by Tesla would be 360 (WLTP) range, if MIC batteries are further adversely effected by cold then does that mean their range is below other model 3's of a similar age/type for the 6 colder months of the year. Can they charge up to 172 miles in 15minutes at the same temperatures, etc. The other stats would be from research and reviews online, which formed part of the decision to buy. I don't know much about cars but I doubt you'd see noticeable differences between range, performance or spec (ie: door trim) of two petrol cars made within the same 6 month period - you'd expect to receive what you ordered.

I don't mean to knock Tesla, given I've just ordered one, but when spending this amount of money you'd hope to be given all the information at the purchase point, not when you collect the car. Maybe its much about nothing and really the differences aren't noticeable, it would be good to get word from Tesla or someone in the know of the differences/impact.

Well firstly, this battery is for SR+ cars only, not LR (360 mile range). But as long as the battery can pass the quoted WLTP range for an SR+ then there is no mis-selling. It may well perform worse in cold weather, but Tesla never promised any specific cold weather battery performance.
 
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kelvin 660

White SR+ with LFP battery
Aug 21, 2020
350
267
Stonehouse
Good luck with getting Tesla into a spec battle! Tesla have the specs covered in the sales literature. Look at the 8 year battery warranty. Only Tesla can decide if the battery has lost 30% based on a test that they are not going to give their customers...

2021-01-25 13_00_25-Clipboard.png
 
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16tablets

Member
Jan 21, 2021
24
7
UK
thanks for the info @Peteski, so does this mean the different batteries on MIC M3's only applies to SR and not the LR models?

@Kelvin sadly devil is always in the detail, I don't know why I expected different. I'm not overly fussed about the change in trim, etc, my only real concern is around the battery. I've been waiting to order a EV for a while and spent a lot of time trying to find one that could meet my range demands. The LR with its range and charge time seemed to be a winner, but that was using all the current real world information for the battery currently in use.

Guess we'll have to wait and see... thanks again
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,403
UK, Milton Keynes
thanks for the info @Peteski, so does this mean the different batteries on MIC M3's only applies to SR and not the LR models?

@Kelvin sadly devil is always in the detail, I don't know why I expected different. I'm not overly fussed about the change in trim, etc, my only real concern is around the battery. I've been waiting to order a EV for a while and spent a lot of time trying to find one that could meet my range demands. The LR with its range and charge time seemed to be a winner, but that was using all the current real world information for the battery currently in use.

Guess we'll have to wait and see... thanks again

That is correct. LR batteries are not affected by this. They have actually just been updated with slightly more capacity. They are about as good as it gets for EV batteries and you are unlikely to be disappointed. Some info here:-

Tesla confirms new 82 kWh battery pack in Model 3, thanks to new cells - Electrek
 
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gavhall

Member
Jan 25, 2021
6
5
Dublin

Jibjab

Member
Aug 8, 2020
189
113
Doncaster
This is only the P, the LR gets LG battery pack now and is less than the old Panasonic pack by about 3kwh.

The refresh LR has a mix of the 2020 (Panasonic) battery and LG battery in Europe. If you have the 2020 battery it is apparently soft locked at the moment. Probably to align with the lower capacity LG. My refresh long range has never been able to display the EPA rating of 353miles, it either has the LG battery or a soft locked Panasonic. The 353 miles is being displayed in US LR refresh models, only European versions are affected.
 

Jason71

Active Member
May 8, 2019
3,197
3,270
Shropshire
I don't mean to knock Tesla, given I've just ordered one, but when spending this amount of money you'd hope to be given all the information at the purchase point, not when you collect the car. Maybe its much about nothing and really the differences aren't noticeable, it would be good to get word from Tesla or someone in the know of the differences/impact.
Whatever the final spec and condition of your car I am sure it will be within "Fleet Standard"
If things like communication, openness and honesty are important to you it may be that Tesla is not the company for you. Arguably any motor manufacturer, but particularly Tesla.
 

browellm

Member
Oct 4, 2019
611
572
Notts
Can you link to your source for that info? It doesn’t tie up with what I’ve read, including the article I linked.

It's on Bjorn's channel. If you've got the LG pack, don't be disappointed. My inference from watching the videos is twofold:
1) Tesla have adjusted its properties somewhat to be more efficient at lower temps - to work better with the heat pump
2) I think Tesla is still gathering data about the real world performance of this battery and I wouldn't be surprised if they optimise it further through an update.
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,403
UK, Milton Keynes
It's on Bjorn's channel. If you've got the LG pack, don't be disappointed. My inference from watching the videos is twofold:
1) Tesla have adjusted its properties somewhat to be more efficient at lower temps - to work better with the heat pump
2) I think Tesla is still gathering data about the real world performance of this battery and I wouldn't be surprised if they optimise it further through an update.

it’s all pretty confusing, but from what I am reading LG batteries are currently only fitted to MIC cars, so there should be none of those in the UK until MIC cars arrive here.

I’m also not seeing any real evidence that the newest Panasonic 82 kWh battery is only fitted to P cars. Plenty of sources state that it is used on LR AWD too. Hard to validate that either way.

For the OPs benefit (and sanity!), none of the LR cars will have the CATL battery discussed in the original Chinese video. That is SR+ only.
 
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Avendit

Member
Apr 18, 2019
857
567
EDI
OTOH, as long as you aren't relying on that bottom 5% of your battery, none of this really matters... Over 7 years a couple of extra KWh are nice padding to help you stay out of the top and bottom 10%, but don't really make a difference day to day.

On my P-, unless I'm aiming for somewhere,
  • with destination charging,
  • that is between 270 and 300 miles away, and
  • I pre-dehydrate myself to be able to do it without a stop,
it just doesn't matter. If you are going less distance then you will make it any way. If you are going more you have to charge anyway. The situations it will matter for are really really marginal (unless your commute happens to be in that range, then I'm on your side!). If you are stopping for a charge, adding an extra 2% makes no real difference. If you are planning to go into the last 5% anyway, then that is going to be a pretty tense drive and once you have done it a couple of times you'll stop for a wee topup!

Don't get me wrong - its all interesting - but it makes waaaay less difference than the heatpump. I really would welcome the more consistent performance through the cold weather
 
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