battery cooling question

[airborne spoon]

The last few months it's been hot but I've supercharged in hotter weather with no issue last year.
It comes up with the air conditioning reduced and supercharging rate may be reduced.
And it takes forever for it to go away. When the AC works it works great.
I was looking in my scan my Tesla and noticed the temps seem a bit high and the louvers aren't at 100%. Shouldn't they be full when it's overheating and even when I'm driving and it's still not cooled down 1 degree after 30 minutes on flat ground at 70 mph.
The only thing under warranty still is the battery but this seems like something else. I'm a mechanic so if anyone has ideas of what to fiddle with I can work it.

 

[Chaserr]

Battery problems over the last year shifted priority to keeping batteries much cooler.

 

[airborne spoon]

Battery problems over the last year shifted priority to keeping batteries much cooler.

Ok interesting, do my louvers look right though? And should my AC be on or off while it's on overheat mode? I've had it off for the last hour. Made it to my next supercharger and it's still at the same temps, haven't lost a single degree in 65 miles
And I'm here waiting because the charger is full as always and my fans are going apeshit at full power but no temp changes

 

[MP3Mike]

You should check to see if the louvers are actually opening or not. Also, at least one person that had cooling found that the fins on their radiators were all bent up from road debris which restricted air flow. So you might check to see if you need to use a fin comb to straighten them out.

 

[airborne spoon]

So while I was stopped at the supercharger I looked and the louvers under the fog lights were closed on both sides. I have a 2014 P85D pre facelift.
I don't know if those are supposed to be open or not. I could push them open a little with my fingers. But if those are closed isn't it pulling air from the low middle of the grille opening? There was a light breeze outside so I couldn't feel if air was being sucked in through there or not.
My power is severely limited due to the battery being at 137°F

 

[ShawnA]

Hi airborne spoon,

Call Tesla Roadside Assistance.
This is what they are for... Remote diagnostics warranty or not...
Do not risk your car or battery for want of a phone call...

Shawn

 

[airborne spoon]

Hi airborne spoon,

Call Tesla Roadside Assistance.
This is what they are for... Remote diagnostics warranty or not...
Do not risk your car or battery for want of a phone call...

Shawn

You'd think right?
No! The guy is like "all we do is towing buddy, I can't help in any way with your questions"
I finally made it home the battery is still 133°f and it was limiting my acceleration to 0-30 mph in 8 seconds
The grills look ok, I've seen much worse that worked fine so I'm back at wondering if those fog light louvers are supposed to be open or not. Because I can only wedge my fingers in there a little and slightly open one side or the other.
I'm gonna drive it down the road and plug into a chargepoint overnight and hopefully it's not a burnt pile of ash in the morning

 

[ShawnA]

Hi Airborne spoon,

Then I would suggest searching this forum for "louvers."
There are some good articles from April and May of this year
that may address your problem or direct you to a solution...

Good luck,

Shawn

 

[MP3Mike]

So while I was stopped at the supercharger I looked and the louvers under the fog lights were closed on both sides. I have a 2014 P85D pre facelift.

If the fans are running while Supercharging the louvers should almost always be open. So you likely have broken louvers that you need to get fixed. (From what I have seen Tesla doesn't have remote diagnostics for this.)

Another way to check is that when you plug in and start charging at home they should cycle open and then close. (Or stay open if it needs the extra air flow.)

 

[Chaserr]

You'd think right?
No! The guy is like "all we do is towing buddy, I can't help in any way with your questions"
I finally made it home the battery is still 133°f and it was limiting my acceleration to 0-30 mph in 8 seconds
The grills look ok, I've seen much worse that worked fine so I'm back at wondering if those fog light louvers are supposed to be open or not. Because I can only wedge my fingers in there a little and slightly open one side or the other.
I'm gonna drive it down the road and plug into a chargepoint overnight and hopefully it's not a burnt pile of ash in the morning

he lied to you they do more than tow.

If they want to play dumb drive your battery to death And get a new one under warranty. You have proof you tried to get them to do something and they refused to save themselves warranty costs. If teslas horrible service costs them enough maybe they will make it better again

 

[jplasmd]

I think your AC is out. When working normally, the BMS never lets the battery temp get above 113.5 degrees (at least, prior to Batterygate/Chargegate). Without your AC working and the battery chiller cooling your battery with evaporating R134a, the car is trying to dump heat solely through the center coolant radiator. Your two radiator louvers are wide open (they can be felt, but not seen when the front fascia is removed), while the side louvers will remain closed, and the fans are spinning at max speed to pull as much air through the radiator as possible. Yes, the air is getting pulled through the two condensers too, but without the AC compressor spinning (it's a scroll type), they are not dumping any heat. If this sounds a bit confusing, it may help to look at the parts diagram at Tesla's website: https://epc.tesla.com.

AC systems can go out because of bad sensors, a bad temp mgmt module, refrigerant leak, wiring problem (consider rodents and salt water corrosion of connectors/grounds, since you're from Fort Irwin), DC/DC inverter fuse, and/or bad compressor. Am I missing anything?

BTW, if you bust one of those side louvers, they cost $300 each from Tesla. I hit a bobcat a while back. The impact busted a side louver, that punctured the condenser, that blew out almost all the compressor oil, that has some special dialectic properties, that costs about $150 for 8 ounces...

 

[MP3Mike]

When the AC works it works great.

Are you saying that the AC isn't currently working. If so, that is your problem.

 

[airborne spoon]

I think your AC is out. When working normally, the BMS never lets the battery temp get above 113.5 degrees (at least, prior to Batterygate/Chargegate). Without your AC working and the battery chiller cooling your battery with evaporating R134a, the car is trying to dump heat solely through the center coolant radiator. Your two radiator louvers are wide open (they can be felt, but not seen when the front fascia is removed), while the side louvers will remain closed, and the fans are spinning at max speed to pull as much air through the radiator as possible.

Yes, the air is getting pulled through the two condensers too, but without the AC compressor spinning (it's a scroll type), they are not dumping any heat. If this sounds a bit confusing, it may help to look at the parts diagram at Tesla's website: https://epc.tesla.com.

AC systems can go out because of bad sensors, a bad temp mgmt module, refrigerant leak, wiring problem (consider rodents and salt water corrosion of connectors/grounds, since you're from Fort Irwin), DC/DC inverter fuse, and/or bad compressor. Am I missing anything?

BTW, if you bust one of those side louvers, they cost $300 each from Tesla. I hit a bobcat a while back. The impact busted a side louver, that punctured the condenser, that blew out almost all the compressor oil, that has some special dialectic properties, that costs about $150 for 8 ounces...

Ok the front louvers I can see and slightly force open a little. Is there rear louvers too? Like in front of the wheel?
When the car is hot and overheating based on what you said the front should be open but what side ones? Are you referring to the back inside the wheel well? I can see the holes for the airflow in the wheel well when I do my tire changes.

I'll pull out the fronk liner and inspect the louvers tomorrow. Maybe disconnect whatever controls them so they stay open. I recently checked all my fuses because my eMMC is going out and tomorrow I'm gonna pull it apart to send for repair. So I'll double check all the fuses but if they are all good then does that suggest the louver motor thing is bad? Or possibly another error caused by the eMMC failure? When I get it apart it should be all DC powered so if I disconnect it all then hit it with some alligator clips at 12v should it open and close right?

I don't think there is anything wrong with the AC system though, just the louvers. Because the only reason the ac isn't working is because the battery was at 130° until I plugged into the supercharger it was working great and it works great normally. It's only when I supercharge when it's hot outside and for a few hours after I unplug that the AC doesn't work. Like today I charged at mammoth for like 35 min and got in the car the AC worked and I rolled out. The outside temp was like 85°. Then I charged in lone pine for like 30 min unplugged and no AC, outside temp was about 100°. And no AC at all the rest of my trip and the charge in inyokern that should've taken 30 min (outside temp 106°) took 70 min due to speed being reduced from lack of cooling that I now believe is due to the louvers being shut.

I have an apt for service to check out my battery having a useable amount of 69kWh, but I'll have to push it back like a week so I can get my eMMC chip repaired. If I can't figure it out by then I'll have them diagnose it and then maybe fix it myself if it's a parts thing not a computer thing.

Are you saying that the AC isn't currently working. If so, that is your problem.

See above, the AC works when the battery isn't overheating.

 

[airborne spoon]

Well I got my car at the charger this morning and the battery was charged and sitting at 88°f, outside temp 82°f.

I drove it home and pulled off the front fascia and inspected the louvers they look good, as do all my coils.

Yesterday when I tried to open them they were shut tight, today with the power removed they opened and closed easily. So I think the car might be sending the wrong signals to the louver motors. Does that sound possible?
Like I said I have a failing eMMC and will pull that out today to send off.

 

[airborne spoon]

While looking around at how the whole vent thing works I found out the driver's side small louver was broken. The one more middle that you can't see without removing the front bumper.
It looks like I'll have to replace that entire long ass element for that one small piece. And I'm betting it's not cheap.

 

[jplasmd]

I recall it being listed at $385 in a post I read a while back. The side louvers were $239. Motors included in both.

 

[airborne spoon]

So I have an apt with Tesla to get this louver problem fixed but the labor is insane. Does anyone think they will sell me the damn parts so I can do it myself? It's really easy work and not that invasive.
I'm a mechanic and I really really hate having some service tech work on my car. My 8 previous cars I have never had a service tech work on and it's annoying as hell Tesla service seems to make us not able to diy services.

Also WTF does the thermal controller actually do? Because damn $430 is getting expensive for a single part.
Does that piece control the louvers at all?
If it does shouldn't they just change that part and not the louvers then?

 

[ucmndd]

That just looks like they’re throwing a whole bunch of parts at something without any particular level of reasoning or diagnosis.

Can’t imagine any of those are restricted parts, so yes, they should just sell them to you if you want to try it yourself...

 

[MP3Mike]

So I have an apt with Tesla to get this louver problem fixed but the labor is insane. Does anyone think they will sell me the damn parts so I can do it myself? It's really easy work and not that invasive.
I'm a mechanic and I really really hate having some service tech work on my car. My 8 previous cars I have never had a service tech work on and it's annoying as hell Tesla service seems to make us not able to diy services.

Also WTF does the thermal controller actually do? Because damn $430 is getting expensive for a single part.
Does that piece control the louvers at all?
If it does shouldn't they just change that part and not the louvers then?

View attachment 572622

The parts are all listed as non-restricted, so you should be able to buy them without issue. (Well the thermal controller doesn't come up under that part number, it comes up under 1034215-99-A.)

But like you said I would replace one, or maybe all of the louvers, before I dealt with the thermal controller that appears to be in the HVAC box. (Which is probably a large project to tear out the dash to get to, but they don't show a picture of the part.)

 

[jplasmd]

Yep, looks like a shotgun approach to repair. However, the quoted prices for some of the louvers are quite a bit less than those paid by other members within the last couple of months for the identical parts. Maybe some Tesla parts guys just make up the parts prices on the fly, lol. In general, Tesla restricts the sales of structural and high voltage parts only.

To replace the thermal controller, first remove the MCU (there are several YouTube video available on this) and the glove box, loosen the steering column, and then the remove IP carrier (that metal skeleton that goes across the entire front) from the frame. It’s held on by 18 screws. After that, the thermal controller is easily removed from the HVAC unit. After the new thermal controller unit is installed, you either have to install an OTA update, or, if you already have the latest software version installed, have a Tesla tech plug in their Toolbox to your car and run the "Firmware Redeploy" procedure.

You could try just replacing the louvers. If you find that you don’t need one or more of the new louvers you purchased from Tesla, sell them on eBay. Currently, used ones are listed for more than new ones. That can happen with Tesla used parts because of the time it can take in obtaining new parts from Tesla.