Battery Day Announcements - Ludicrous Model 3 Performance

[Sukhshanti]

More top end please! It is embarrassing that even a lowly stock Mustang GT traps higher than we do.

 

[Phlier]

More top end please! It is embarrassing that even a lowly stock Mustang GT traps higher than we do.

There was a post or two here on TMC a year or so ago that speculated the reason for the rather lack luster top end was because of the motor design used in our cars, and that we'd need to have a second gear in order to keep the power levels up at faster speeds. I don't know if he was correct or not, but at least it's food for thought.

 

[BlindPass]

More top end please! It is embarrassing that even a lowly stock Mustang GT traps higher than we do.

Maybe I’m in the minority, but given how infrequently I go past 150, that’s rather low on the
list. I’d rather the extra cost needed to go faster than that be put elsewhere in the car. I’m sure others feel the same about 0-60 improvement, but flooring it off the line is something I can safely do nearly every drive.

 

[strider]

There was a post or two here on TMC a year or so ago that speculated the reason for the rather lack luster top end was because of the motor design used in our cars, and that we'd need to have a second gear in order to keep the power levels up at faster speeds. I don't know if he was correct or not, but at least it's food for thought.

Correct. At higher speeds you need more current to get the same power due to back EMF (at least in the AC Async motors that the S/X/Roadsters have in the rear in the Performance models). This is why Porsche added a transmission to the Taycan.

Maybe I’m in the minority, but given how infrequently I go past 150, that’s rather low on the
list. I’d rather the extra cost needed to go faster than that be put elsewhere in the car. I’m sure others feel the same about 0-60 improvement, but flooring it off the line is something I can safely do nearly every drive.

Agreed. You can only use 100+ at the race track. 0-40, 0-60, 15-75 (on ramps) I can use multiple times per day. I would choose "quick" over "fast" every time for a street car.

 

[Apprunner]

Correct. At higher speeds you need more current to get the same power due to back EMF (at least in the AC Async motors that the S/X/Roadsters have in the rear in the Performance models). This is why Porsche added a transmission to the Taycan.


Agreed. You can only use 100+ at the race track. 0-40, 0-60, 15-75 (on ramps) I can use multiple times per day. I would choose "quick" over "fast" every time for a street car.

I wouldn't mind a little more grunt from 80 to 130mph though. I'm honestly completely satisfied from 0-80...really pulls great.

 

[Sukhshanti]

Maybe I’m in the minority, but given how infrequently I go past 150, that’s rather low on the
list. I’d rather the extra cost needed to go faster than that be put elsewhere in the car. I’m sure others feel the same about 0-60 improvement, but flooring it off the line is something I can safely do nearly every drive.

You are correct that most if not all daily driving happens under 100mph, but I do like to race sometimes and it is just nice to have that confidence from a roll when a V8 tries to line up next to you on the highway. I think my main gripe is that even the AWD LR got a $2k boost option and now they will run even or slightly beat a P3D from a roll based on their 1/4 mile trap speeds. This should not be happening!

 

[Siciliano]

Would you have otherwise not bought a Tesla if the M3 was not offered? If you would have otherwise bought the S, it’s an example of the M3 cannibalizing the MS. Why give Tesla more money for the S when you can get better aspects on the cheaper 3, without sacrificing too much elsewhere?

Model S sales in 2019 were the lowest since 2014. Some of that could be due to a lot of those looking to spend 100k on an EV sedan have been able to for 7 years, but some of it is due to those that wanted a Tesla could now get a “similar” option for much less in the M3. Cannibalism.

If the M3 were to get an update that made it essentially as quick as the MS, but still much cheaper, what do you think would happen to MS sales? Although there is some product differentiation (namely size and range), I think it would further suppress MS sales.

The S isn’t really that much more luxurious than the 3. Range and acceleration will need to be better enough to justify such a price delta imo.

That's an interesting question. I don't think I would have bought it. I've had enough full-size luxury cars, and I'm over it. Right now, I specifically like a smaller, more nimble 4 door car (because, kids). If I didn't have kids, I would probably be pining over the roadster... but I have no desire to own a large car again.

It's like I said, I feel as though plenty of people would pay more for the S if they want a larger car. In many cases that is completely independent of its speed, as in my friend's case with the A8L. He doesn't care that the S6 is faster for less money, he prefers the larger car...

 

[Siciliano]

Maybe I’m in the minority, but given how infrequently I go past 150, that’s rather low on the
list. I’d rather the extra cost needed to go faster than that be put elsewhere in the car. I’m sure others feel the same about 0-60 improvement, but flooring it off the line is something I can safely do nearly every drive.

This. I would take a 0-60 improvement any day of the week over more top end power. I've gone over 100mph only a few times... but 0-60, of course, many, many times.

 

[Phlier]

Correct. At higher speeds you need more current to get the same power due to back EMF (at least in the AC Async motors that the S/X/Roadsters have in the rear in the Performance models). This is why Porsche added a transmission to the Taycan.

It would really be nice if (when they finally get caught up) Tesla could have a few performance/enthusiast mods. Offering a two speed gear box for us speed junkies would be a nice touch. I'm not saying a factory option (although that would be nice), I'm talking about a "yeah, we offer this stuff for you to install yourself, and it'll void your warranty" type products offered by the mother ship itself.

Offering a a gear box for us DIY types would just be sooooo cool. Have some sort of automated number that you call, punch in some sort of code, then they push a software update out to you to handle your new mod. Yeah, I know that makes code maintenance a nightmare, but hey... doesn't hurt to dream a bit.

IMO, the only thing my car is missing is some upper end grunt. If it had that, it'd be the closest thing I've ever had to "the perfect car."

The year that I've had my Tesla is the only year I can think back on in more than 30 years that I haven't owned some sort of muscle car that I liked to wrench on every now and then. I kinda miss that aspect of it, and hope that eventually the enthusiast market will extend pervasively into the BEV market. I'd own a muscle car right now, except for the fact that I've become one of those environmentally aware types that would rather keep as much oil in the ground as possible. As such, I let the Tesla be my muscle car fix nowadays.

So while a paid-for OTA update for more performance would be nice, if squeezing more performance out of a Model 3 requires buying more hardware and voiding my warranty in the process, I'd still be up for it, although third party, non-supported "hacks" need not apply.

 

[ThomasD]

lon Musk hints at major developments in battery technology in 3 to 4 years that could make next-generation electric planes possible

[email protected] (Tim Levin,Evan Sully)
August 26, 2020, 1:59 PM EDT

Tesla CEO Elon Musk projected a more than 50% increase in battery density over the next few years.
Mike Blake/Reuters

• Tesla CEO Elon Musk suggested major developments coming to the company's battery technology over the next few years in a Monday tweet.
  
  
• Musk hinted that Tesla will be able to mass produce batteries with an energy density of 400 Wh/kg in the next three to four years — a more than 50% jump in capacity, as compared with the batteries Tesla currently uses for its Model 3.
  
  
• Last year, Musk said that for battery-powered flight to become as viable as traditional kerosene-powered jets, batteries need to achieve an energy density of at least 400 Wh/kg.
  
  
• Analysts expect Tesla to announce advances in battery and powertrain technology at the company's Battery Day, set to take place on September 22.
  
  
• Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.
  

With the company's hotly anticipated Battery Day just around the corner, Tesla CEO Elon Musk hinted at major developments coming to his company's battery technology over the next few years.

In a Monday tweet, Musk suggested that within three to four years Tesla could mass produce a battery with an energy density of 400 Wh/kg. That would represent a more than 50% increase in capacity over the batteries currently powering Tesla's Model 3, which researchers estimate have a density of 260 Wh/kg, per Reuters.

In the tweet, which was in response to a thread speculating about the future of electric airplanes, Musk also mentioned that the batteries would have a "high cycle life," meaning that the cells could be charged and discharged many times over without affecting performance, a necessity for electric vehicles.

Last year, Musk said that for battery-powered flight to become as viable as traditional kerosene-powered jets, batteries need to achieve an energy density of at least 400 Wh/kg. At the time, he predicted that may happen in five years.


Musk has a history of being outspoken about the potential of electric aircraft becoming more common in everyday life, and has previously detailed ideas for a more advanced electric jet that could take off without a runway. But in a September 2018 interview with comedian and podcaster Joe Rogan, Musk said that he didn't find the pursuit of a Tesla electric aircraft to be "necessary right now," instead stating that he wanted to dial in on preserving energy.

"Electric cars are important," Musk said in the interview. "Solar energy is important. Stationary storage of energy is important. These things are much more important than creating electric supersonic VTOL [vertical take-off and landing]."

Musk's latest comments on battery developments comes as anticipation builds for Tesla's Battery Day presentation, which is set for September 22, the same day as its annual shareholder meeting. Musk hasn't said much about what to expect, but analysts predict that the company will announce new battery- and powertrain-related developments.

"In our opinion this battery technology will be very advanced, potentially last for decades, withstand all types of weather/terrain, and be another major milestone for the Tesla ecosystem," Daniel Ives, an analyst at Wedbush, told clients on Sunday, adding that, "In theory this battery will support an electric vehicle for 1 million miles and be a major step forward when competing vs. traditional gasoline powered automotive competitors."

Elon Musk is also scheduled to show off new technology from another of his companies, the AI-brain chip startup Neuralink, on Friday, August 28 at 3 PM Pacific Time. Musk has promised a live tech demo of a "working device."

Read the original article on Business Insider

 

[adrianp89]

Well I did say "for certain values of car"

But there's no official/universal definition of "production" car either- every racing series and even has their own and can often include very highly modified versions of mass produced cars, which would certainly include some cars on that list quicker than a roadster.

And several of the quicker-than-1.9 cars do note they remain street legal if you wanted to use that as a criteria to kick out stuff like top-fuel drag cars that do it in less than 1 second....

Every car on that list besides Roadster is also on a prepped surface with slicks. Find me a car with street tires that can handle weather conditions and can still run under 2 seconds. Most of the cars there would probably get beat by a Model S at a stop light. Not to mention the reliability factor is next to zero. A good example is the HellCat Demon, even with very advanced launch technology, people struggle to reach the cars best time, you need a perfect track, slicks, and be a damn good driver.

The limit isn’t power it’s mostly grip. Dragsters can achieve such quick times because the thrust from the exhaust pushes the tires into the ground (as well as tires/prepped track/etc.)

 

[Knightshade]

Every car on that list besides Roadster is also on a prepped surface with slicks. Find me a car with street tires that can handle weather conditions and can still run under 2 seconds.

Did you not actually read the list? At least 2 specifically call out they're running on street tires.

 

[adrianp89]

Did you not actually read the list? At least 2 specifically call out they're running on street tires.

Sure if you want to call cheater slicks - street tires. I guess they are technically DOT legal but no manufacturer would ever put them on a car. Those tires do not grip at all in rain.

 

[Knightshade]

Sure if you want to call cheater slicks - street tires. I guess they are technically DOT legal but no manufacturer would ever put them on a car. Those tires do not grip at all in rain.

Having owned a car that actually used and needed such tires- I wouldn't drive them in a rain storm, but they work fine and are street legal in good weather.

Also at least one manufacturer put them on cars from the factory. (Dodge, on the Demon- probably others I don't know off top of my head too)

Just like the PS4s tires that come factory stock on a P3D work fine in good weather but you shouldn't drive them in a snow storm.