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Battery degradation - 2019.32.2.2

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12 mile drive from a 90% SOC (279) gets the battery down to 257. Almost 50% disappeared ?
If 50% of your capacity disappeared, your rated range remaining would have been appx. 140, not 257. Energy consumption goes up in colder weather due both to energy inefficiencies and denser air. Also, were you using the A/C to heat the car? The butt warmers? Did you warm up the car? Any or all of these would also have consumed capacity.
 
Model: LR Dual motor
Build Date: 10/19
Current Miles: 1.5k miles
Current SOC to Miles: 90% SOC = 279
Location: northern NJ
Software/ Notes:
2019.36.2.1 - Noticed the range difference
Average Commute: 20-40/miles a day
Typical Charge Patterns: 90% SOC 2x per week

The degradation started after the last firmware update. It’s worsened as it got colder.
12 mile drive from a 90% SOC (279) gets the battery down to 257. Almost 50% disappeared ?
Your battery is perfect, right? 279miles @ 90% is 310 miles. You're using 22 miles of EPA-rated range for 12 miles driven. That's because it's now cold out, and you're using heat.
 
Mine was 258 before the update. One thing I have noticed is that last week when I still had 263, I changed as usual to 90, but in the morning it showed 91%. This was not the first time it happened and now that I think about it, I think every time that happened, than is when the range drops.

Unless your car is in a climate-controlled garage, be careful about reading too much into these extrapolated numbers. It's better to extrapolate your range with a reasonably full battery (more than 80%) after a long high power run (15-20kW for a couple hours followed by Supercharging ideally). An LR battery cold soaked at 35 degrees has about 6-7 fewer miles available at 100% than that exact same thoroughly warmed battery at 80 degrees, measured on the same day.
 
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Anyone have any more positive results by charging to 60 or 70%?

Bought my stealth P at the end of July. I would always charge nightly to 90%, even though I wouldn't drive more than 20-30 miles a day most days. For some reason I would always charge to 90% and then unplug overnight and always 279 is what showed after hitting 90%. Then I started leaving it plugged in overnight and then noticed the rated range going down. Was it from a software update or was it from being kept at 90% overnight....I don't know. Some have suggested that nightly recharging from SOC 70-90% causes problems for the BMS and it doesn't know where the floor is, while others are very opposed to that strategy and follow the Tesla moto that a happy car is plugged in when not in use. I started not charging it nightly and letting it run down to 20-30% before recharging to 90% and didn't notice any difference. Again this is very minor but since it was trending down, I wanted to keep an eye on it. I was getting 271-272 at 90% but went down 1 mile at a time and seemed to lose a mile a week for a while there.

Then I read on here that someone changed it up and just charged to 70% one time and saw a higher rated range and went up when they charged it to 90% the next time. I decided to do that yesterday (from about 20-70%) and didn't notice much change. I drove it for a few miles for the rest of the day and then today I brought it to a destination charger with about 215 miles on it to charge to go back up to 90%. Today I saw a 2-3 mile improvement and got 274 at 90%.

I'm starting to think varied charge levels from time to time is needed to keep the BMS thinking and honest. Maybe I am completely wrong and given the fact that it was only a 2-3 mile difference but this was after one time so wondering if there is actually something to this. I firmly believe it is a calibration issue and not actual capacity loss.
 
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Bought my stealth P at the end of July. I would always charge nightly to 90%, even though I wouldn't drive more than 20-30 miles a day most days. For some reason I would always charge to 90% and then unplug overnight and always 279 is what showed after hitting 90%. Then I started leaving it plugged in overnight and then noticed the rated range going down. Was it from a software update or was it from being kept at 90% overnight....I don't know. Some have suggested that nightly recharging from SOC 70-90% causes problems for the BMS and it doesn't know where the floor is, while others are very opposed to that strategy and follow the Tesla moto that a happy car is plugged in when not in use. I started not charging it nightly and letting it run down to 20-30% before recharging to 90% and didn't notice any difference. Again this is very minor but since it was trending down, I wanted to keep an eye on it. I was getting 271-272 at 90% but went down 1 mile at a time and seemed to lose a mile a week for a while there.

Then I read on here that someone changed it up and just charged to 70% one time and saw a higher rated range and went up when they charged it to 90% the next time. I decided to do that yesterday (from about 20-70%) and didn't notice much change. I drove it for a few miles for the rest of the day and then today I brought it to a destination charger with about 215 miles on it to charge to go back up to 90%. Today I saw a 2-3 mile improvement and got 274 at 90%.

I'm starting to think varied charge levels from time to time is needed to keep the BMS thinking and honest. Maybe I am completely wrong and given the fact that it was only a 2-3 mile difference but this was after one time so wondering if there is actually something to this. I firmly believe it is a calibration issue and not actual capacity loss.
Keep in mind that the ambient temp has changed since you bought your Stealth P. When you were leaving it unplugged, it was warm outside. Later, when you changed up your routine, it certainly has gotten colder outside. I think temp change leads to BMS drift.
 
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Unless your car is in a climate-controlled garage, be careful about reading too much into these extrapolated numbers. It's better to extrapolate your range with a reasonably full battery (more than 80%) after a long high power run (15-20kW for a couple hours followed by Supercharging ideally). An LR battery cold soaked at 35 degrees has about 6-7 fewer miles available at 100% than that exact same thoroughly warmed battery at 80 degrees, measured on the same day.

Good info, thanks. Can you clarify this a bit?

I have a 4 month sr+ plus that had 5 mile range loss, 6 weeks ago. My max charge at 100% was 235 miles. Then, it dropped to loss of 10 miles 3 weeks ago, and now holding at 8 miles of range loss today. The daily temps are 20-50 degrees. Are you saying much of the loss is due to colder temp? If so, is it reasonable to think I may get some miles back when it warms up again?
 
Good info, thanks. Can you clarify this a bit?

I have a 4 month sr+ plus that had 5 mile range loss, 6 weeks ago. My max charge at 100% was 235 miles. Then, it dropped to loss of 10 miles 3 weeks ago, and now holding at 8 miles of range loss today. The daily temps are 20-50 degrees. Are you saying much of the loss is due to colder temp? If so, is it reasonable to think I may get some miles back when it warms up again?

It’s hard to know without doing the experiment above. If your car is kept in a heated garage and warmed to 70 degrees I would not expect any impact of temperature.

My specific observation was for a case when I was at ~90% charge, left car overnight at 35 degrees, and in the morning I was still at 90% charge with 6 fewer miles. No snowflake. So that had to be temperature. Later that day after driving a lot and warming up I was back to the original number of miles at 90%.
 
Good info, thanks. Can you clarify this a bit?

I have a 4 month sr+ plus that had 5 mile range loss, 6 weeks ago. My max charge at 100% was 235 miles. Then, it dropped to loss of 10 miles 3 weeks ago, and now holding at 8 miles of range loss today. The daily temps are 20-50 degrees. Are you saying much of the loss is due to colder temp? If so, is it reasonable to think I may get some miles back when it warms up again?
Hard to know for sure, but mine definitely improved when the temps went back up in Spring, and has started to drift downward now that it's cold again.
Screenshot 2019-11-19 14.23.42.jpg
 
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Model: LR RWD
Delivery Date: June 6, 2018
Current Miles: 35,860 miles or 57,710 kilometers
Current SOC to Miles: 100% SOC = 307 miles or 494 km
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Current Average Temperature: 32-40º F (0 - 5* C)
Daily Driving Habits: 60 -100 Miles (100 -160 km)
Average Daily Commute: 73 miles or 118 km (away for 8 weeks)

To recap: 307 miles @ 100% SOC
 
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Hard to know for sure, but mine definitely improved when the temps went back up in Spring, and has started to drift downward now that it's cold again.
View attachment 485828

This is a bit encouraging. trying to sort out all the info... your long lr from last year has a different battery type, no?

I think a big issue is the new battery on sr and sr+. They have problems and the new installed software is masking it or some cells are simply degrading. My opinion, of course.
 
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Take a look at what i am seeing in my TeslaFi battery degradation report. It shows a loss of 11 miles (3.5%) over a 2 week timeline from Nov. 10-30. I've annotated it for when I received updates 36.2.1 and 40.1.1, and clearly I see a total projected range change for each of these updates. Note that my charging was similar throughout the time period as I had a charge routine that I build as a schedule in TeslaFi that mimicked Telsa's 'ready for departure' routine. Also note that the temperature ranges from only 59 to 55 degrees F basically tight over the time in question. I've got a AWD LR M3 w/Aero wheels that I received in late september. Thoughts?
upload_2019-12-9_13-29-12.png

upload_2019-12-9_13-29-12.png
 
If this range thing is really dependent on temperature - which is fine, I just wish they would tell us that. ...and the fact that there is this whole rounding issue - the two coupled together is what sends people over the edge trying to figure it out when there's nothing to figure out.
The thing is, there are likely multiple things happening to cause lower Rated Range numbers. For some, like myself, it could be temperature related. For others, software updates seem to cause a BMS drop, or it could be buffer size changes, etc. And for the unfortunate few, it could be real battery degradation.

Here's my latest chart I did over the weekend, I was able to manually add temperature data to my Stats info, since Stats does not include temp like TeslaFi. Notice how well temp in red correlates to Rated Range in blue. That's from January until December, and you can clearly see how the range rises and falls with the seasons. The solid red and blue lines are moving averages.
Screenshot 2019-12-09 12.51.38.jpg
 
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@KenC thar is a great chart. The avg temp where I live is around 44f now and I have lost anywhere between 4-7 miles of range if I charge to 90%. Interestingly enough when I charged over a few cycles to 70% it closed that gap to 3-4 mi. When I bumped back up to 90% it stayed like that for a few charging cycles and then went back to 4-7 mi loss. I see the same difference now on the holiday update (2019.40.50.1).

Is the general consensus that we should not worry and continue charging at our normal levels (90% for me) and as the weather warms up this should recalibrate? Just want to understand if I should be changing my charging habit or levels I charge to or deplete the battery further between charges or bring to a supercharger every once in a while, etc

Thanks