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Battery Degradation (again)

Discussion in 'Model S' started by sunstealer, Jul 21, 2018.

  1. sunstealer

    sunstealer New Member

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    So I've been trying to find an answer to a question I have regarding the battery conditions of Teslas cars, but strangely it's been eluding me so far.

    There is a lot of data about the degradation of the battery packs as measured using the on-board system diagnostics included in the car from production.
    What seems to be lacking however, is to see some people reporting their findings if they measure the consumption/range of their used cars without relying solely on the built-in Tesla-designed software.

    I believe that even if used Teslas are able to charge their batteries up to 100% and get within 5-10% of what their original range was supposed to be, there is still the possibility that their used battery will deplete a lot faster than what is did when new (and this is not being accurately reflected in the on-board estimates).

    It would be very interesting to get some data from people who drive 50,000+ miles used Teslas telling how far they can get from say 80% charge -> 30%. Information from the on-board estimate (remaining range at 80% - remaining range at 30%) as well as real-world miles travelled.

    Anyone up for that challenge?
     
  2. BobbyKings

    BobbyKings Silver

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    My 2015 S85D with 140000 kilometers on the odometer still does well over 410 real life real kilometers on a full charge. 100% - 0%.

    Just tested myself last week in Europe.
     
  3. thegruf

    thegruf Active Member

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    • Like x 1
  4. sunstealer

    sunstealer New Member

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    Sorry, this was my first post on this forum. I didn't realise there was a dedicated "Battery Discussion". If a moderator could move this thread there it would be great.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. sunstealer

    sunstealer New Member

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    Thanks for the reply BobbyKings. Seems like your car is still performing exceptionally well then. I just have a bit of hard time shaking some doubts I have about the battery claims seeming "too good to be true". Especially when compared to every other producer of all things electronic. Seems like Tesla is in a league of it's own with their batteries. It seems a little odd to me, considering they're all using very comparable technology.
     
  6. tstafford

    tstafford Supporting Member

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    I understand your concern what with things like the iPhone/iPad that degrade really quickly.

    What I can tell you is that I've noticed no appreciable degradation in my three years of ownership. Unless the battery hits a cliff at some point, I don't think it would be an issue during the normal lifespan of a car. My bet is the interior and whatnot will wear out to the point where the car is ready for the crusher before the battery is toast.
     
  7. BobbyKings

    BobbyKings Silver

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    I am positively surprised as well. I do charge usually up to 90%, drive a bit over 40000 km/year (25000miles/year) and do not spare the car. It has been out on the autobahn full throttle (for a few miles only), it has been high in the alps during winter, it is always parked outside and it gets occasional SuperCharging (once per month on average). Once every 3-4 months I do a full 100%-0% cycle and I do drive it a few miles/kms beyond zero.

    It does indeed hold up very well. I think the Battery Management System ("BMS") plays a crucial role. Keeping temperatures and charging speeds at bay.

    And that is what many other electronic products are lacking. Even the early Nissan Leafs were missing a solid BMS and they did suffer serious degradation indeed.

    Maybe I'm lucky, but I do think Tesla is doing really well when it comes to BMS and battery life. FWIW.
     
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  8. Mucall

    Mucall Member

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    I have a 2013 85 Model S. From November 2017 to July 2018 90% charge went from 232 to 227. Just in case this is help. The service center told me the battery looks healthy and normal.
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Just another data point...
    My 2012 P85 (delivered in November) is reporting 227-228 mi. at 90% charge. It's never been 100% charged, but has been near and under zero several times (~ half a dozen).

    227 mi @ 90% would linearly scale to 252 mi. The official rating was 265 mi at purchase, corresponding to 238.5 mi. at 90%. Sometimes when new firmware arrived 239 mi. (the "default" value) would show at 90% SOC, with the 227-230 mi. value showing after 1-3 charges (gather data from the actual battery).
     
  10. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    Brian -
    Ho many miles are on your Sig these days?

    My '13 S60 was delivered on June 4, 2013 and now has just over 91k miles on it. I typically drive ~1100 miles per month for commuting, with the rest of the miles being road trips (we've done 5-6 "big" trips between 1500-4500 miles each, plus some 1-2 shorter trips per year). I usually charge to 90% during commuting, but will charge to 100% at the start of a road trip, and will charge to ~95% or so for certain legs when on road trips.

    When new, a 100% charge was 208 miles. 100% charge is now 186-187 miles, so I'm seeing slightly over 10% degradation. Over the first 2 years, a 100% charge dropped to 198-199, the following 2 years it dropped to 190-192, and in the last year or so, its lost another ~5 miles. Pretty even so far.
     
  11. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Tess is @ 47155 miles. She's mostly in the garage these days, since I mostly drive Illyria (and Mercury before that).

    IIRC, Mercury had ~39k miles when I traded her in.

    Illyria is @ 20,484 miles.
     
  12. Evoforce

    Evoforce Member

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    Nissan Leaf still doesn't have liquid TMS. Maybe 2019 looks like it will be their first.
     
  13. Ali’sMax

    Ali’sMax Member

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    I have a 17X100D, new car at 100% is 295 but in just 6months 10,000miles later my 100% is 288...3%degradation
    I do weekly long trip so I do charge it 100% for the trip but never drop below 20% when get to my destination.
    Do you think I can save some battery degradation if I charge to 90% instead of 100% for the trip?
    During the week I charge to 80%
     
  14. MarcusMaximus

    MarcusMaximus Active Member

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    One note here is that most people charge their other electronics(phones, etc) to 100% every day and there's little room for cooling the battery in ever-slimmer devices. By comparison, a Model 3/S/X only really needs to be charged to ~70-80% and only once every few days most of the time, and they have ample room for good cooling(and take advantage of that)
     
  15. unbelievable

    unbelievable Member

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    Would you mind sharing how you do this?
     
  16. tstafford

    tstafford Supporting Member

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    Quite possibly, but is it worth it?

    Battery degradation was a legit concern in 2012 when we had no real world examples. I don't see people complaining that their battery is now only charging to 50%, 75% or whatever of it's original capacity. Seems like very marginal decreases - so small that you may as well not worry about it and just enjoy the car however is most convenient for you.
     
  17. BobbyKings

    BobbyKings Silver

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    Roundtrip to my parents is close to max range. I charge 100% prior to visiting them. On the way back I put the energy app on the screen and aim for 1%-2% on arrival at home. Close to home I make some detours to arrive at 0%. Plus some rounds around the block.

    Don't push the pedal to the metal as it might just switch off. And I don't do this in the winter.
     
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