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Battery Degradation (Canadian Version)

Discussion in 'Canada' started by ytwytw, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    I got hands on the OBD cable for Tesla with Blue colour connection socket

    and I have a OBDLINK adapter lying around (used to debug my ML550)

    The magic combo of Bluetooth adapter and Tesla OBD cable finally making real data

    B05C87BF-40BF-40D2-92E7-398E428399FF.jpeg 69AB8CF2-BA70-4905-B9CB-1886B80DA555.jpeg

    The above is an 100D model s with VIN 215XXX
    Half Home charging and half supercharging

    Assume when battery is brand new, it’s perfect 100kWh pack

    After 12k km and above charging pattern, the pack degrades 1.9% (1.9kwh out of 100kWh, easy math for 100 pack)




    8723F367-DBD8-4449-BCEA-D62B4C99D67F.jpeg 7E44DEC5-801C-4279-96A4-A696B4521931.jpeg
    The above is a 100D with lots super changing and little Home charging

    VIN 755xx, 14k km

    100D pack degrades 2.7%



    Personal conclusion
    Lots supercharging is not good for the battery


    One side note


    04F6A428-254C-4AF7-B109-0B77C35527F9.jpeg
    Data is Model S 100D
    When the battery is warm
    I can achieve peak output 428kW
    Regen has peak about 73kw with average 68kW

    So it’s uncorked as conclusion
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 1
  2. Hugh Mannity

    Hugh Mannity Mediocre Member

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    Cool stuff! What data shows up under the BMS tab? Would be interested in seeing what that tracks.
     
  3. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    The actual nominal full pack capacity of a new 100 battery is 102.4 kw, not 100.

    The actual nominal full pack capacity of an 85 is 81.8.
     
  4. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    That would be Temp & Voltage of each cell pack
     
  5. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    Oh that means both of 100D I tested has degraded ~5%

    But still, chemistry changes over time.

    Does anyone in GTA has recently delivered 100D so I can test the pack?
     
  6. Bluewish

    Bluewish Member

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    I got 1 with less than 700km on it. How to test it?
     
  7. rpm001

    rpm001 Member

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    Really interesting! Particularly the discharge cycles I find interesting. I've been wondering if I should switch to home charging every other day. I use about 16% a day in my round-trip commute. That would reduce the number of cycles, but go deeper...
     
  8. JSergeant

    JSergeant Supporting Member

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    What software are you using to read the OBD data?
     
  9. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    also, attributing the greater degradation to supercharging may not be accurate either .

    Maybe car A charged to 80% all the time and car B charged to 100%?

    Maybe car A will degrade another 1% in the next few thousand kms once it reaches parity with car B


    The polls I've seen have shown supercharging, weirdly, is better than home charging for battery degradation. Not sure htey used OBDii sourced data though which is much more accurate to get a feel for how often someone supercharges. This was a poll done on the site using slightly vague categories like always supercharge, often , rarely and never. The always and often guys had less degradation than the rarely and never guys. Neat.

    Would love to see that data on my car. It's a P90D with the first 90 battery and I've seen max energy capacity drop from 429 kms to about 410 kms over 3 years and 50,000 kms. Would like to see the real data. The 90 battery actually was an 85.8 kwh battery when new. That's why when the 100D and P100D came out people questioned how the 100D could have 19% more range with only 10% more battery. It's not 10%...it's actually 19% more battery.

    Nominal capacity when new:
    100 = 102.4 kwh
    90 = 85.8 kwh
    85 = 81.8 kwh
    75 = 75 kwh

    I don't know why they named the batteries the way they did. Rounding...? nope. makes no sense.

    In reality the 100 should be 100, 90 should be 85, 85 should be 80, 75 should be 75.
     
    • Informative x 1
  10. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    We can meet somewhere tonight and I bring the cable to check
     
  11. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    Scan my Tesla
     
  12. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    I see the thread talking about the Nominal capacity when new, however the data point is very limited as well

    since @Bluewish has a fairly-new 700km 100D, it could be used as a data point for current Nominal capacity as new-ish pack.
     
  13. Bluewish

    Bluewish Member

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    PM me if you are available next week. How long does it take?
     
  14. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    Less than 5min? We can do at Vaughan or Sheway Garden
    PM me your contact info and hook you up
     
  15. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    Interesting thing happened...

    During Firmware download/installing, my car is charged over my set limit (80%) to 100% (known bug)

    Since when charge to full (100%), the car will attempt to balance cells

    Overall, Model S nominal full pack increase from 98.1 to 98.3 now (0.2kwh increase)

    Personal conclusion:
    Balance the battery does help a bit, but definitely should not be done often (3mo maybe, 6mo definitely )

    Screenshot_20180329-085346.png
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  16. pers1

    pers1 Member

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    I used both TM Spy and Scan My Tesla app and got these numbers from my Model X 100D pre-delivery here in Norway

    100D Measured VIN JF08XXXX (mine)
    Advertised Full Pack 100 kWh
    Nominal Full Pack Pack 96.9 kWh
    Energy Buffer 4 kWh
    Usabel Full Pack 92.9 kWh
    Only with 40.6Km / 25.22 Miles on the odometer Brand New at pre-delivery. Finished in production january 14th 2018 and shipped to Norway. BMS said state of charge at 58.5 % ,366,32V 1.0A and 10 mV difference from highest (3.821V) to lowest (3.811V ) battery voltage
     
  17. X Fan

    X Fan Supporting Member

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    Smartelectric: you disagreed with above post.

    Can you please explain your thinking?
     
  18. ytwytw

    ytwytw Member

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    Screenshot_20180506-075601.png

    Charging from 2% to 99% has used 94.65kwh

    The full usable pack probably is around 95.x kwh

    Adding known 4kwh buffer, probably 99.x kWh full pack
     
  19. pers1

    pers1 Member

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    D0768B9B-6B84-4A87-AAD7-F8BEC9A0C091.jpeg 4kWh buffer is included in the full pack
     

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