ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Rare, but not “no one”. My 75 has lost over 9% in 18 months and 55k miles and I have no doubt it’ll be well north of 10% by year 5 if not year 2.
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Battery Degradation
- Thread starter padal77
- Start date
Rare, but not “no one”. My 75 has lost over 9% in 18 months and 55k miles and I have no doubt it’ll be well north of 10% by year 5 if not year 2.
I stand corrected, but that type of degradation is rare and unusual. Can you share what if you have done anything out of the ordinary in your usage?
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
120 miles/day on a 75kw battery. My typical charge cycle is 90% to ~35%. Mostly steady state cruising, about half freeway half rural farm roads, lifetime consumption is 315wh/mi. Maybe 30-40 supercharges in 55k miles, maybe ~20 100% range charges. Nothing hugely unusual other than the fairly rapid accumulation of miles. Current 100% charge is 228 miles.
I won’t have expected that much degradation given your mild usage. Did u ask Tesla about this? Could there be something wrong with your pack? What climate are you driving in?
henderrj
Active Member
That reference had not enough data. The sample size was just not good enough to be meaningful.
- There is plenty of studies showing that a higher charge rate is wearing a battery down faster, due to higher current and higher temperature. Those factors are well known.
- The fact that some batteries get a reduced charge speed after a certain amount of Supercharging sessions is another indicator.
- Tesla recommending to Tesloop not to supercharge on a regular basis.
- http://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/ultra_fast_chart.jpg
Note that while supercharging is fast compared to regular L2 charging, it isn’t all that fast relative to the battery size. Even at maxed out 120kw, it is only 1.2C rate for a 100kwh battery.
More degradation, likely. But it isn’t going to kill the battery. Think of it as a Big Mac to your health. Don’t eat one for each meal, but a couple times a week is not going to hurt much.
More degradation, likely. But it isn’t going to kill the battery. Think of it as a Big Mac to your health. Don’t eat one for each meal, but a couple times a week is not going to hurt much.
SpudLime
Active Member
I tried telling my wife this. She raised her eyebrow and returned to typing on her computer.
Drat.
Of course it's not going to kill the battery. We are not talking about killing a battery, we are talking about minimizing degradation. When it comes to an EV battery, we are talking about a life of 2000 cycles or more which is a whole lot more than most devices where batteries are used. A cell phone battery that fades after 2 years of use is commonly accepted. That's 600-700 cycles. A car should last minimum 10 years. The effects of Supercharging do add up over the longer life. My car is a little over 4 years old and I have more than 1000 Supercharging sessions done. My use might not be average but many people drive a lot and use Superchargers a lot.
Tesloop’s Tesla Model S Surpasses 400,000 miles (643,737 kM)
Needed two HV battery replacements due to constant supercharging. Article includes notes from Tesla Service.
henderrj
Active Member
Constant supercharging, immediately after heavy use, in hot weather, to 100% every time. Hardly an average scenario. Yes, of course it can't be great too constantly be charging a battery to 100%. But that doesn't help us with whether or not the fast-charging was the issue. Tesla's statement, sounds like a lawyer statement more than anything else. Old boilerplate text. Not a convincing statement here.
ahkahn
Active Member
I have similar driving characteristics, and same 90% max since new. My battery has degraded down around 6% from the highest. Started at 298 miles at 100% and now I am around 279 miles @ 100%.
Can you describe exactly what you mean by "drive the P100D on Ludicrous+ with heated battery all the time (non easter egg mode)" ? I know what the Easter egg mode is, but not sure about heated battery ? Does putting it in Ludicrous (as opposed to Sport) automatically heat the battery ?
For your first question, the quoted portion was asking if you can leave Max Battery on without it auto-toggling off between drive sessions. I don't think so, but I've never tried and don't plan to. It would be a bad idea for battery degradation, IMO.
No, to your last question.
Ludicrous, Max Battery, and Launch Mode are described in the owner's manual as shown below.
) :I'm just sharing information, not offering a definitive answer. I gleaned from this article that yes, constant Supercharging is not a good thing. Tesla throttles supercharging after a certain number of cycles in order to protect the battery. Tesla considers every charge at 40 kW or higher to be a "fast charge" that counts towards eventual throttling. If fast charging did not have a negative effect, why on earth would Tesla do this?
At the end of the day, do what you do. I supercharge when I need it, I don't worry about it at all. But I don't do it every day - I do it a few times per year. We will eventually find out one way or the other.
ahkahn
Active Member
I feel like at that point I'd say something.... Isn't that approaching the point where Tesla will actually do something about it?
It's a button, that leads to a confirmation popup, that leads to a countdown timer that eventually says "Ready!"
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