Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Battery Drain Overnight.

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
772
458
Scotland
Testing with mobile access on and all logging off was my next step; I'll do it as soon as I know the car is not going to move for 24+ hours.

This is a pattern from TeslaMate:
View attachment 716612
Thats an interesting pattern from Teslamate as the car is not sleeping at all. I've only experienced the offline status when the Tesla app has been keeping the car awake. i.e. when I see my car offline, if I go into the app and then come out of it, the car will then go to sleep. Have you upgraded the Tesla app?
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
3,722
2,717
Bath, UK
Diagnosing sleep problems can be problematic, since there's no way to remotely know if the car is awake or asleep, without using an app that might itself be causing issues. You can't use the Tesla app to check, because opening the app will wake the car up if it isn't already.

You can tell if the car is awake if you're standing next to it, as it will make an audible whirring sound. You will also hear roughly when it goes to sleep because you'll hear the HV battery disengagement "clonk", and the whirring will stop.

I can say that, at least for a UK Model 3, running TeslaMate in its default configuration - my car doesn't have problems sleeping, and I can use TeslaMate as often as I like without it affecting the car.

The first thing you should do in this situation is change your password. Changing your Tesla password invalidates your API auth and refresh tokens, so will stop apps that you might have used in the past, uninstalled or stopped using, but still have your tokens and are still polling the car. After that known good starting point, you can stand next to your car and listen out for its state changes. If it's still clearly awake for hours (notwithstanding 12v battery charging) then speak to Tesla, but don't mention third party apps at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: navguy12 and fetzu

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
772
458
Scotland
Are you simultaneously running two remote apps? If so, they will each individually interact with the cars sleep timer and cause it to either not sleep, or keep polling out of sync causing it to wake. Having more than one remote app regularly polling the car via the API is a really bad idea as there is no synchronised access between different apps.
Sorry, i should have said it is good practice to only use one monitoring app - even if only for this diagnostic period. Since we know Teslamate when using the Streaming API - I think you said you were using this - doesn't poll the car, that's the one I would use. Others who know how to configure TeslaFi may have different opinions, but stick to one.

If you still see the problem then you can switch to the other app to rule out each individual app from causing the issue.

I'd also say that TM graph would be enough to raise a case with Tesla, but best to discount the interaction with Teslafi to be sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Durzel

fetzu

Member
Oct 2, 2018
71
56
Switzerland
Thanks everyone for chipping in and trying to solve this with me !

Are you simultaneously running two remote apps?
I was, but since trying to diagnostic this a little more precisely I have been using only one at once (and sometimes none, as explained in my previous posts); it was actually one of my first suspicions when I first tried to diagnostic/resolve this about 6 weeks ago. For reference, I have been using TeslaMate with the Streaming API exclusively.

Have you upgraded the Tesla app?
Yes, I have been using the latest iOS app on my phone (exclusively). I have no Tesla widgets what-so-ever and also tried deleting and re-installing the app already.

You will also hear roughly when it goes to sleep because you'll hear the HV battery disengagement "clonk", and the whirring will stop.
The whirring does stop, and I can hear the electrical clicks and clonks (also when waking up the car afterwards). This does however not correlate with less range loss in my case.

The first thing you should do in this situation is change your password.
I have done this a few times already with mitigated results (see previous posts).

but don't mention third party apps at all.
I'd also say that TM graph would be enough to raise a case with Tesla
That's what I already did (screenshots of states in TM and TeslaFi, both of different diagnostic time-frames). But their answer (and Durzel pointed out) has been to blame this on third party apps. What speaks against this is the fact that I have let the car sit for about 7-8 days with no apps in use (token revoked, Tesla app not even logged in) and still got abnormal range loss and the MCU reporting never having slept 3941 seconds (through the dynotest bug a few fw versions ago). That's an hour and 5 minutes and correlates with what I am seeing on TM and TeslaFi.

My hot take at the moment: my car never sleeps, it just goes offline. Sometimes actually going offline (i.e., LTE taking 5 minutes to re-connect when “waking up” in areas with plenty of 3G74G signal; this specific issue I am currently still investigating with Tesla) instead of sleeping. My far-out theory is that something went bad when they imported the config during the MCU upgrade, which prevents the car from actually sleeping (funnily enough, the diag mode was reporting my “Car computer” as being “mcu_transition”. Maybe some random energy saving mode is still taken into account, but now shown on the UI...?).

My next steps are the following:
1) Testing the 12v battery (although I now see on my pictures that it was at 13.92v, which is a little too high… maybe it was being fed by the car battery itself?)
2) Doing another test with "Mobile Access" turned on but no logging/apps at all over 24+ hours and see:
2.1) if the vampire drain gets better
2.2) if the "LTE" disconnect still happens when waking up the car.
3) Trying with TeslaMate exclusively (no Tesla app either) to see if the car goes asleep at some point
4) The one I am trying to avoid: factory reset the car.

If none of those fix it; I'll do my best to try to escalate this with Tesla. I have read in the TeslaFi support forums somewhere that someone was having a similar issue, and it turned out to be a faulty electrical seat motor (or was it a sensor?) what was constantly drawing power and keeping the car awake; but unfortunately I don't have the necessary tools or time to diagnostic something like that…

I will keep you updated with those findings.
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
3,722
2,717
Bath, UK
Random thoughts..

Do you have Summon Standby enabled? This will keep the car awake even if the car doesn't have Sentry on.

Any mods like auto frunk/trunk openers? They might have interactions with the electrical system, or require the car to wake up more regularly to top up the 12v battery.
 

Wol747

Active Member
Aug 26, 2017
1,149
608
Tea Gardens
>>1) Testing the 12v battery (although I now see on my pictures that it was at 13.92v, which is a little too high… maybe it was being fed by the car battery itself?)<<

I'm no expert on the system but it does sound a little on the high side which, as you say, would be indicative of a charging state ie. the charge voltage rather than the resting 12v battery voltage. Even a loose or poor ground connection might trigger charging even if the 12v was good.
 

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
772
458
Scotland
Thanks everyone for chipping in and trying to solve this with me !


I was, but since trying to diagnostic this a little more precisely I have been using only one at once (and sometimes none, as explained in my previous posts); it was actually one of my first suspicions when I first tried to diagnostic/resolve this about 6 weeks ago. For reference, I have been using TeslaMate with the Streaming API exclusively.


Yes, I have been using the latest iOS app on my phone (exclusively). I have no Tesla widgets what-so-ever and also tried deleting and re-installing the app already.


The whirring does stop, and I can hear the electrical clicks and clonks (also when waking up the car afterwards). This does however not correlate with less range loss in my case.


I have done this a few times already with mitigated results (see previous posts).



That's what I already did (screenshots of states in TM and TeslaFi, both of different diagnostic time-frames). But their answer (and Durzel pointed out) has been to blame this on third party apps. What speaks against this is the fact that I have let the car sit for about 7-8 days with no apps in use (token revoked, Tesla app not even logged in) and still got abnormal range loss and the MCU reporting never having slept 3941 seconds (through the dynotest bug a few fw versions ago). That's an hour and 5 minutes and correlates with what I am seeing on TM and TeslaFi.

My hot take at the moment: my car never sleeps, it just goes offline. Sometimes actually going offline (i.e., LTE taking 5 minutes to re-connect when “waking up” in areas with plenty of 3G74G signal; this specific issue I am currently still investigating with Tesla) instead of sleeping. My far-out theory is that something went bad when they imported the config during the MCU upgrade, which prevents the car from actually sleeping (funnily enough, the diag mode was reporting my “Car computer” as being “mcu_transition”. Maybe some random energy saving mode is still taken into account, but now shown on the UI...?).

My next steps are the following:
1) Testing the 12v battery (although I now see on my pictures that it was at 13.92v, which is a little too high… maybe it was being fed by the car battery itself?)
2) Doing another test with "Mobile Access" turned on but no logging/apps at all over 24+ hours and see:
2.1) if the vampire drain gets better
2.2) if the "LTE" disconnect still happens when waking up the car.
3) Trying with TeslaMate exclusively (no Tesla app either) to see if the car goes asleep at some point
4) The one I am trying to avoid: factory reset the car.

If none of those fix it; I'll do my best to try to escalate this with Tesla. I have read in the TeslaFi support forums somewhere that someone was having a similar issue, and it turned out to be a faulty electrical seat motor (or was it a sensor?) what was constantly drawing power and keeping the car awake; but unfortunately I don't have the necessary tools or time to diagnostic something like that…

I will keep you updated with those findings.
I wouldn't do 4 unless Tesla tell you. If you're still getting drain after 3 then I'd escalate to Tesla. Surely they can see the car not sleeping.
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
3,722
2,717
Bath, UK
Check your 12v battery again. It is possible that the sensor or connection that detects whether it has discharged too much is faulty, and is basically charging it up all of the time?

Perhaps that it worth exploring with Tesla?
 

fetzu

Member
Oct 2, 2018
71
56
Switzerland
Random thoughts..

Do you have Summon Standby enabled? This will keep the car awake even if the car doesn't have Sentry on.

Any mods like auto frunk/trunk openers? They might have interactions with the electrical system, or require the car to wake up more regularly to top up the 12v battery.

Summon standby is disabled and I have no custom things connected to the electrical system such as trunk/frunk openers (I have in fact nothing connected to the car at all, I have unplugged my USB drive too).

Some update: I tested the 12v battery with a multimeter. At first the car was definitely “awake” and feeding it because my readings were at 13.5+V; but after locking, putting the key out or range and waiting a few minutes, the reading was at 12.6V. Which means my 12v battery is perfectly fine in my book.

I could do a “mobile access off / no apps or loggers” test for 20-ish hours and I lost about 3 km of range during that time, which seems acceptable.
Furthermore, I have noticed that my car does indeed “go offline” consistently when I have no logging app enabled: even after being away for about 15 minutes and getting in the car again, the LTE connection is lost and I have to wait for about 5 minutes before the car is connected again (this happens is very well covered LTE areas where the car gets 4-5 bars in normal circumstances). I have noticed Tesla about this and they will be looking into it “as soon as there is some spare time” (that’s a quote, I wish I was kidding..). So I will be waiting on their feedback.

To recap:
-with any logging (TeslaMate or TeslaFi) I get abnormal vampire drain; the car never seems to sleep.
-with no logging, the car seem to “go offline” (instead of sleeping), but the drain seem to go to an acceptable level.

My next test will be to see if I am able to “wake up” my offline car from the app consistently (I think I did yesterday, it took about 5 minutes to show “Parked”).
If that’s the case, it means that the car is not really “offline” and most likely that the MCU has some bad interaction with the modem thinking it is offline when it is not…. causing it to constantly staying on/never sleeping while trying to establish a connection?
I’ll be sure to report back.
 

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
772
458
Scotland
Summon standby is disabled and I have no custom things connected to the electrical system such as trunk/frunk openers (I have in fact nothing connected to the car at all, I have unplugged my USB drive too).

Some update: I tested the 12v battery with a multimeter. At first the car was definitely “awake” and feeding it because my readings were at 13.5+V; but after locking, putting the key out or range and waiting a few minutes, the reading was at 12.6V. Which means my 12v battery is perfectly fine in my book.

I could do a “mobile access off / no apps or loggers” test for 20-ish hours and I lost about 3 km of range during that time, which seems acceptable.
Furthermore, I have noticed that my car does indeed “go offline” consistently when I have no logging app enabled: even after being away for about 15 minutes and getting in the car again, the LTE connection is lost and I have to wait for about 5 minutes before the car is connected again (this happens is very well covered LTE areas where the car gets 4-5 bars in normal circumstances). I have noticed Tesla about this and they will be looking into it “as soon as there is some spare time” (that’s a quote, I wish I was kidding..). So I will be waiting on their feedback.

To recap:
-with any logging (TeslaMate or TeslaFi) I get abnormal vampire drain; the car never seems to sleep.
-with no logging, the car seem to “go offline” (instead of sleeping), but the drain seem to go to an acceptable level.

My next test will be to see if I am able to “wake up” my offline car from the app consistently (I think I did yesterday, it took about 5 minutes to show “Parked”).
If that’s the case, it means that the car is not really “offline” and most likely that the MCU has some bad interaction with the modem thinking it is offline when it is not…. causing it to constantly staying on/never sleeping while trying to establish a connection?
I’ll be sure to report back.
Have you tried with just Teslamate (TM) running? I saw a post on the TM GitHub that suggested that TeslaFi can keep model S and Xs awake if not properly configured. I'll see if I can find the article again.
 

Bobly

Member
Sep 29, 2019
237
164
UK
Have you tried with just Teslamate (TM) running? I saw a post on the TM GitHub that suggested that TeslaFi can keep model S and Xs awake if not properly configured. I'll see if I can find the article again.
It’s mentioned in the FAQ if that’s what you’re thinking of?
 
  • Like
Reactions: init6

navguy12

Member
Apr 5, 2016
642
884
Eastern Ontario
Furthermore, I have noticed that my car does indeed “go offline” consistently when I have no logging app enabled: even after being away for about 15 minutes and getting in the car again, the LTE connection is lost and I have to wait for about 5 minutes before the car is connected again (this happens is very well covered LTE areas where the car gets 4-5 bars in normal circumstances).
FWIW: I went through an unreliable LTE scenario for a period of time after having HW 3.0 installed (in my May 2018 build). All of my LTE issues were solved when the LTE line replaceable unit was swapped out.

Details can be found here: Where is the LTE sim card located in a May 2018 build TM3?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keeper

fetzu

Member
Oct 2, 2018
71
56
Switzerland
Have you tried with just Teslamate (TM) running? I saw a post on the TM GitHub that suggested that TeslaFi can keep model S and Xs awake if not properly configured. I'll see if I can find the article again.
Yes I ran TeslaMate only for about a week (though that was before uninstalling the Tesla app, although I don’t think the app was preventing the car from sleeping). The patterns were exactly the same. I’ll try this again next week and see if maybe I get lucky.


FWIW: I went through an unreliable LTE scenario for a period of time after having HW 3.0 installed (in my May 2018 build). All of my LTE issues were solved when the LTE line replaceable unit was swapped out.

Details can be found here: Where is the LTE sim card located in a May 2018 build TM3?
Thank you very much for the feedback and the link. That’s the direction I was currently pursuing (issue with the modem/LTE module); although we do have different cars, a lot of my current issue overlap the ones you were having. Did you get the replacement done under warranty? My car is currently way past that, but I am going to argue that those issue arose exactly when the AP3/MCU2 upgrade was performed (and I have the logs to prove it) and try to get them to fix this one out of their own pocket.
 
  • Like
Reactions: init6 and navguy12

navguy12

Member
Apr 5, 2016
642
884
Eastern Ontario
Yes I ran TeslaMate only for about a week (though that was before uninstalling the Tesla app, although I don’t think the app was preventing the car from sleeping). The patterns were exactly the same. I’ll try this again next week and see if maybe I get lucky.



Thank you very much for the feedback and the link. That’s the direction I was currently pursuing (issue with the modem/LTE module); although we do have different cars, a lot of my current issue overlap the ones you were having. Did you get the replacement done under warranty? My car is currently way past that, but I am going to argue that those issue arose exactly when the AP3/MCU2 upgrade was performed (and I have the logs to prove it) and try to get them to fix this one out of their own pocket.
Cheers.

My LTE unit was replaced under warranty.

I suspected from day one after my upgrade to HW 3.0 that something somehow got botched with the LTE…and/or amplified an existing issue that my LTE system had from the day the car was manufactured.

Good luck with your battles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fetzu

fetzu

Member
Oct 2, 2018
71
56
Switzerland
Just a quick update: a 48 hour idle test (no app/logging, but mobile access turned on) yielded a loss of just under 10km. What I would consider a pretty normal vampire drain (taking the colder weather the car had been sitting in also). I woke up the car twice during those 48 hours and the LTE was disconnected both times.

I’ll do the « just TeslaMate » again this week for good form but I’ll definitely pursue that LTE lead with Tesla thoroughly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: navguy12 and init6

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
772
458
Scotland
Just a quick update: a 48 hour idle test (no app/logging, but mobile access turned on) yielded a loss of just under 10km. What I would consider a pretty normal vampire drain (taking the colder weather the car had been sitting in also). I woke up the car twice during those 48 hours and the LTE was disconnected both times.

I’ll do the « just TeslaMate » again this week for good form but I’ll definitely pursue that LTE lead with Tesla thoroughly.
Thanks for updating. It's always good to how these problems are resolved - even if they just go away.
 

fetzu

Member
Oct 2, 2018
71
56
Switzerland
Another quick update: did a test with no app and only TeslaMate, and I am still getting “excessive” battery drain and seeing the same “online/offline” pattern as before. The silver lining is that TeslaMate alone keeps the LTE from disconnecting. My solution right now is to use TeslaFi exclusively and turn off logging when I know the car is going to stay parked for longer periods of time.
I am still waiting to hear from Tesla regarding the car actually going offline when sleeping.
 

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
772
458
Scotland
Another quick update: did a test with no app and only TeslaMate, and I am still getting “excessive” battery drain and seeing the same “online/offline” pattern as before. The silver lining is that TeslaMate alone keeps the LTE from disconnecting. My solution right now is to use TeslaFi exclusively and turn off logging when I know the car is going to stay parked for longer periods of time.
I am still waiting to hear from Tesla regarding the car actually going offline when sleeping.
Teslamate doesn't interact with the car if you're using the streaming API, so how does it keep the LTE from disconnecting?
 

VanillaAir_UK

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
8,767
6,337
Surrey, UK
Another quick update: did a test with no app and only TeslaMate, and I am still getting “excessive” battery drain and seeing the same “online/offline” pattern as before. The silver lining is that TeslaMate alone keeps the LTE from disconnecting. My solution right now is to use TeslaFi exclusively and turn off logging when I know the car is going to stay parked for longer periods of time.
I am still waiting to hear from Tesla regarding the car actually going offline when sleeping.
There is an option in TeslaFi to get an email when the car goes offline. It’s quite useful to actively monitor behaviour. Our car started going offline in the weeks preceding an MCU failure and will go still offline now if in poor LTE signal area ie underground car park.
 

fetzu

Member
Oct 2, 2018
71
56
Switzerland
Teslamate doesn't interact with the car if you're using the streaming API, so how does it keep the LTE from disconnecting?
I wish I could tell you; but repeated tests show that the car goes “offline” with very limited battery loss with no logging apps, and does this “online/offline” pattern with excessive loss even with only TeslaMate turned on (I checked and am using the last version, I did this after revoking all the API keys as well). I am as dumbfounded as you are…

There is an option in TeslaFi to get an email when the car goes offline. It’s quite useful to actively monitor behaviour. Our car started going offline in the weeks preceding an MCU failure and will go still offline now if in poor LTE signal area ie underground car park.
I did do this (using Pushover notifications) earlier, and I got the offline notifications as expected; unfortunately in my case it has nothing to do with LTE signal (there is plenty where this happens) and the MCU hasn’t failed yet (and it has been doing this since I first did the upgrade back in may).
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top