Battery drains 12 miles in 5 hours[?], Plugged in

[jordyun]

I glanced through the sticky threads and I don't think this belongs there, but sorry if it does...

Mine is a MR purchased at end of 2020 with only 16k miles. We live in sunny San Diego and it's 70F today.
I've had some phantom drains but it didn't bother me this much, until recently it just gets to an uncomfortable level. I've seen many discussion on different forums, and I turned off sentry, turned off summon standby, and turned off cabin overheat protection. I don't have TeslaFi or any other 3rd party apps. And people also say keep the car plugged in even if not charging. Ok I know these. I also know MR is notoriously bad at calibrating the range and also the battery seems to degrade more than other models. And here's what happened today:

I came back home at 10am, the car is showing 88miles. I plugged into my level 2 charger (30mi/hr), and set charging limit to 147mi, and it's showing charging will take 2 hours (and should end at noon). I went to work, and then came back to the car at 5pm. I see there's a "gap" to the charging limit, and it shows 135mi only. And the charger beeps and re-started charging showing it needs 20mins to finish (~10miles). The screen shows that I "only" added 47mi. Does this mean it drained 12mi this afternoon in 5 hours? Can this "only" be calibration errors? (I've seen this one time last month, I just didn't record the miles before charging and hence did not have "much" evidence).

Previously, we did notice that sometimes when we get to the garage, the car is making some sound like its AC is on. If I open the door, or open the App, that sound will go away instantly. I did not remember hearing that recently but I may just not be going to the garage very often.

BTW, I'm only seeing 233ish miles at full charge (MR supposed to be 260~264). I also know this is "normal" and this belongs to the sticky thread, but just to give you some information in case it helps. Maybe my car's calibration is really really bad?

Thanks,
jordyun

 

[jjrandorin]

In your screenshot, the car is only charging at 18amps vs the 32 it appears it can charge. You are not charging at 30 miles an hour, at least in that screenshot.

 

[jordyun]

When I took the picture, it was just starting to charge. My intent was to take the 135mi not the "20 min remaining". It's SolarEdge inverter/charger combo and charges at 32A max. Attached the charging session from my charger/solar app. Indeed it did not charge for 2 full hours, but isn't something still wrong? It has more time to finish charging to 147mi (the bar) if you're implying it did not.
And as I said it isn't the first time. I've seen it before just with a smaller "gap". And again my car loses 5 to 10 miles at night pretty constantly, I was under the impression it could just be calibration/temperature, so I wasn't too concerned until today that it drains even in the warm afternoon and plugged in.

 

[jjrandorin]

If your car loses 5 - 10 miles a night, something is keeping it awake. Its normal for the fan to run for a while after you get back. I live in temecula so not that far from SD, and am familiar with the weather patterns there as I work in North County.

The things that could be keeping it awake, some of which you already identified in your first post:

1. Third party applications, if not configured properly. Note, if you have ever even tried one, change your tesla password to ensure it still doesnt have access. I know you mention "I dont have any third party apps" but im not clear if that means "I have never, ever used one" or "I dont use one now".

2. Cabin overheat protection. Set this to not use AC at the least

3. Sentry mode. Make sure its off at your location. I personally dont use any of the automatic settings, because there have been reports of people thinking its off at home because they set it that way, but it still being active there.

4. Standby summon (if you have FSD). Turn this off

5. Finally, try turning off data sharing, as a test. The car will stay awake if it is uploading a bunch of data to tesla. You can turn off data sharing for a few days to test and see if your drain is lower. If you are connected to wifi and the signal is weak where you park, that could also have the car constantly searching for signal. I havent tested this, but smartphones use more battery when they have poor signal and are always searching for signal. Try deleting your wifi connection and turn off data sharing (just as a test) to try to get to the root cause of what is causing your car to stay awake.

 

[jordyun]

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure I have the first four OFF. I'll try to turn off data sharing. I actually tried to do it earlier today (when checking if I have other things turned off), but thought that was just some sort of "terms and condition" that I can't reject...
The wifi signal clicked in my head. I do have ATT fiber with Eero mesh, and I generally am very satisfied with it, but our smart water heater in the garage, also sometimes had connection issues. Do you know if Tesla is using the 2.4G band or the 5G? The 5G may have trouble passing through walls and the 2.4G may have interference issues with other appliances.
What exactly is the fan sound though? I get it if it's after a trip and it's cooling the battery or some sort. But I've heard it like hours after the trip, or even in the morning (but it might be charging at that time, not too sure)...

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure I have the first four OFF. I'll try to turn off data sharing. I actually tried to do it earlier today (when checking if I have other things turned off), but thought that was just some sort of "terms and condition" that I can't reject...
The wifi signal clicked in my head. I do have ATT fiber with Eero mesh, and I generally am very satisfied with it, but our smart water heater in the garage, also sometimes had connection issues. Do you know if Tesla is using the 2.4G band or the 5G? The 5G may have trouble passing through walls and the 2.4G may have interference issues with other appliances.
What exactly is the fan sound though? I get it if it's after a trip and it's cooling the battery or some sort. But I've heard it like hours after the trip, or even in the morning (but it might be charging at that time, not too sure)...

Tesla will use both 2.4 and 5ghz, but seems to work better on the 2.4. If your mesh networking device, like many, uses one SSID and then puts devices on "the best one for them", I dont know which one it chooses in that case. I specifically use mesh networking equipment that lets me separate the SSIDs between the 2.4 and 5ghz because I dont like that "helpful" "we will automatically put it on the best one for you" thing.

Many IoT (internet of things) devices have setup routines that wont work on an SSID that is shared with 5ghz (things like connected washing machines, fridges, etc etc).

Anyway, you should be able to at least see whats on which network somewhere in your routers configuration / information screens. I would be interested to know which one the car prefers if presented with both. I know it works on both but I had issues downloading stuff over 5ghz.

As for the data sharing, its been a while sinnce i looked at those screens, but I seem to remember that if you dont agree to the data sharing that would turn it off, and then you could also remove the wifi connection from the car as well.

 

[Gasaraki]

I glanced through the sticky threads and I don't think this belongs there, but sorry if it does...

Mine is a MR purchased at end of 2020 with only 16k miles. We live in sunny San Diego and it's 70F today.
I've had some phantom drains but it didn't bother me this much, until recently it just gets to an uncomfortable level. I've seen many discussion on different forums, and I turned off sentry, turned off summon standby, and turned off cabin overheat protection. I don't have TeslaFi or any other 3rd party apps. And people also say keep the car plugged in even if not charging. Ok I know these. I also know MR is notoriously bad at calibrating the range and also the battery seems to degrade more than other models. And here's what happened today:

I came back home at 10am, the car is showing 88miles. I plugged into my level 2 charger (30mi/hr), and set charging limit to 147mi, and it's showing charging will take 2 hours (and should end at noon). I went to work, and then came back to the car at 5pm. I see there's a "gap" to the charging limit, and it shows 135mi only. And the charger beeps and re-started charging showing it needs 20mins to finish (~10miles). The screen shows that I "only" added 47mi. Does this mean it drained 12mi this afternoon in 5 hours? Can this "only" be calibration errors? (I've seen this one time last month, I just didn't record the miles before charging and hence did not have "much" evidence).

Previously, we did notice that sometimes when we get to the garage, the car is making some sound like its AC is on. If I open the door, or open the App, that sound will go away instantly. I did not remember hearing that recently but I may just not be going to the garage very often.

BTW, I'm only seeing 233ish miles at full charge (MR supposed to be 260~264). I also know this is "normal" and this belongs to the sticky thread, but just to give you some information in case it helps. Maybe my car's calibration is really really bad?

Thanks,
jordyun

Something is weird with your explanation.

"I went to work, and then came back to the car at 5pm. I see there's a "gap" to the charging limit"
--This means that something stopped the charging and it wasn't the car.

"And the charger beeps... and restarts charging"
--Clue right here? The charger in the car doesn't beep. If your wall connector is beeping, something is wrong with it.

"The screen shows that I "only" added 47mi."
--It's obvious that the wall connector stop providing power to the car for some reason and it's not the car's fault. The wall connector screen is telling you that....

I wish people would stop calling the wall connector the charger. Very confusing.

 

[CapitalTM3]

Something is weird with your explanation.

"I went to work, and then came back to the car at 5pm. I see there's a "gap" to the charging limit"
--This means that something stopped the charging and it wasn't the car.

"And the charger beeps... and restarts charging"
--Clue right here? The charger in the car doesn't beep. If your wall connector is beeping, something is wrong with it.

"The screen shows that I "only" added 47mi."
--It's obvious that the wall connector stop providing power to the car for some reason and it's not the car's fault. The wall connector screen is telling you that....

I wish people would stop calling the wall connector the charger. Very confusing.

I mean to be fair, quite a few people call the wall connector the charger because they assume it is and don't realize that all the charging equipment is onboard the vehicle and the wall connector is just a plug with some smarts. Understand it can make things confusing, but no reason to beat someone up about it.

 

[Gasaraki]

I mean to be fair, quite a few people call the wall connector the charger because they assume it is and don't realize that all the charging equipment is onboard the vehicle and the wall connector is just a plug with some smarts. Understand it can make things confusing, but no reason to beat someone up about it.

Sorry, I not trying to beat up the OP. I'm explaining that it's the wall connector's fault, not some phantom drain with the car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I see there's a "gap" to the charging limit, and it shows 135mi only.

It’s pretty common for the car to not charge to the set limit, but it’s not always entirely clear why. This was likely not vampire drain driven from your description. It just did not charge up to the set limit.

I wouldn’t worry about it. It happens. If it’s consistent then maybe try to figure out why it is happening.

Sometimes erratic charging can be caused by voltage drooping, and other service issues, but then you will typically get a message that charging was interrupted. This will not happen if the car decides it is done charging though (what seems to have happened in this case).

I actually suspect in this case it is your SolarEdge EVSE that terminated the charge for some reason, though it could just be a missed charge target with the car terminating the charge as mentioned above.

Was the 14.3kWh for the entire session or just the first part of the session?

 

[jordyun]

I'm the OP and sorry to bring up an old thread. I did some experiments, but has been procrastinating calling service (and obviously did not come here to update). I finally called service last weekend and I'd like to give some updates while seeking more help from the experts here. My apologies again and thanks in advance.

First of, we did see similar drain either plugged in or not. So I don't think it's related to the charger.

I did turn off data sharing and it may have slight impact but I'm still seeing quite some drain. And I turned it back on because I need real-time traffic info.
I did NOT try turning off wifi because I was thinking if it's not for data sharing I don't think this matters. (I could be wrong but...)

In short this never got resolved but my wife's free charging at work is enough to break even for her commute so I've been procrastinating calling service. Last Sunday I finally scheduled my service for multiple things: this battery drain issue, installing the FSD computer, and the first maintenance since I get the car (it's 20k now).

Tesla first said my car wakes up 5:40am everyday preparing for the "scheduled departure" feature. Initially I used it to time my charging but I haven't been charging at home. I thought I turned it off but some latest releases must have re-activated it. Alright, I turned it off yesterday.

This morning I still see it drained 7 miles overnight. Texted Tesla and they said my car was awake from 5ish to 7ish in the evening doing the "upkeep" like charging 12V, cooling down the battery, HVAC clearing up odor and such. And it slept soundly after that the whole night with no loss. So the whole loss happens in that 2 hour period. This does somewhat align with the observation for drain when plugged in, as the drain seems to happen quite soon rather than the whole night. Now the question is, what is it actually doing in that 2-hour period that needs 7 miles? I have a few hypothesis:

1. The HVAC is working extra hard because we haven't replaced the filter. We did smell some weird odors at times, but was thinking it's due to the sunlight on the fake leather. But now seeing the filter is supposed to be replaced every 6750 miles and now we have 20k miles, this might cause the HVAC to work extra hard?

2. The car is downloading/uploading extra information in preparation for the upcoming service visit. (Just as I type this, Tesla said the telemetry was off during this period. So I guess this trace is dead)

3. The car really needs this much energy for regular "upkeep". I can't really accept this but Tesla seems to say if the software determines to run the upkeep then nothing is wrong and they cannot do anything.

4. One last thing that should be irrelevant but I may as well mention that we've been driving with low tire pressure.

What do you think? On Tesla website it officially says 1% drain a day is expected. And in my case 7 miles in a night (half a day) is basically 6 times of that. I've had worse days for 10+ mile drain. Our commute is only 10~12 miles one way and if it needs "upkeep" for each drive then it's like 50% more energy needed. With the electric price here in SD the fuel economy may actually be worse than an ICE car...

And what options do I have if Tesla just kept saying there's nothing wrong?

-jordyun

 

[jjrandorin]

Try changing your tesla account password, just in case you signed up once at one of those services that can interact with your car. Even if you are not using it, or only logged in once, etc, it could still be keeping your car awake.

Try changing your account password, removing any and all scheduled charging, and ensuring all the usual stuff (cabin overheat protection, summon standby, sentry mode, etc is all off). Also try not having it plugged into your evse which I "think" is not the tesla one.

I glanced at the thread but did not read the beginning to see if you tried all that already, but try all that. Your drain means something is keeping it awake. Could be the car itself, but might not be.

 

[jordyun]

Try changing your tesla account password, just in case you signed up once at one of those services that can interact with your car. Even if you are not using it, or only logged in once, etc, it could still be keeping your car awake.

Try changing your account password, removing any and all scheduled charging, and ensuring all the usual stuff (cabin overheat protection, summon standby, sentry mode, etc is all off). Also try not having it plugged into your evse which I "think" is not the tesla one.

I glanced at the thread but did not read the beginning to see if you tried all that already, but try all that. Your drain means something is keeping it awake. Could be the car itself, but might not be.

I never used any 3rd party apps, not even once. I tried everything except shutting down wifi. Tesla is currently telling me telemetry was off during the period that it sees battery loss. So yes the car was awake but was doing the "upkeep". Why it takes two hours and 7mi last night are still to be found out.

And you may also be correct that the 3rd party EVSE is keeping the car awake. It was not plugged in last night though. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[jordyun]

I'd like to clarify a few things since this was first asked 4 months ago and what I'm asking now could be a bit different, with all the new information I obtained.

First off, I work in the semiconductor industry and when we say "drain" we mostly refer to a constant loss. When people talk about "phantom drain" I may have automatically given it my definition that it loses some energy the whole night constantly.

I have some "drain" since the first day, which I originally think is the "phantom drain". I wasn't too concerned about it, since I have been charging at work and I was under the impression that plugging in should help reduce the drain. I only started charging at home this Spring after we installed the Lv2 EVSE. And somehow the drain got worse, showing a big drain/loss even in a few hours, which was why I come here for the original post.

After testing a few things and also the latest information from Tesla, my "drain" seems to be for two main things: 1) preconditioning setting that was somehow re-activated 2) The "upkeep" the car is doing for only the first few hours after getting home for HVAC and 12V charging. The first one should be taken care of now.

I don't know if this is still called "phantom drain" and if it might belong to the sticky thread. But at least it's narrowed down to the "upkeep" now. 7 miles for the upkeep still seems excessive to me though and hence I'd like to know about your opinion/experience.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'd like to clarify a few things since this was first asked 4 months ago and what I'm asking now could be a bit different, with all the new information I obtained.

First off, I work in the semiconductor industry and when we say "drain" we mostly refer to a constant loss. When people talk about "phantom drain" I may have automatically given it my definition that it loses some energy the whole night constantly.

I have some "drain" since the first day, which I originally think is the "phantom drain". I wasn't too concerned about it, since I have been charging at work and I was under the impression that plugging in should help reduce the drain. I only started charging at home this Spring after we installed the Lv2 EVSE. And somehow the drain got worse, showing a big drain/loss even in a few hours, which was why I come here for the original post.

After testing a few things and also the latest information from Tesla, my "drain" seems to be for two main things: 1) preconditioning setting that was somehow re-activated 2) The "upkeep" the car is doing for only the first few hours after getting home for HVAC and 12V charging. The first one should be taken care of now.

I don't know if this is still called "phantom drain" and if it might belong to the sticky thread. But at least it's narrowed down to the "upkeep" now. 7 miles for the upkeep still seems excessive to me though and hence I'd like to know about your opinion/experience.

The term has morphed some since it started being used here. Originally, "phantom drain" was used to note energy use that could not be explained, like "a vampire who came and drunk blood in the night, where the victim did not remember / notice it happening".

Since then, the term has morphed to be used more like what you described, which is "constant energy usage keeping things awake, etc".

There is a recent thread with owners talking about how much their car uses now, which may be of some interest to you:

How much % do you lose while unplugged?

Assuming a warm climate (10+ C degrees celcius), how much percentage do you lose by just keep your Tesla Model 3 SR+ unplugged and parked. I am going up north in 2 weeks and I plan to keep my Tesla on the front lawn. I would super charger before of course. The location is about 100 KM away...

teslamotorsclub.com

Hope that helps.

 

[jordyun]

The term has morphed some since it started being used here. Originally, "phantom drain" was used to note energy use that could not be explained, like "a vampire who came and drunk blood in the night, where the victim did not remember / notice it happening".

Since then, the term has morphed to be used more like what you described, which is "constant energy usage keeping things awake, etc".

There is a recent thread with owners talking about how much their car uses now, which may be of some interest to you:

How much % do you lose while unplugged?

Assuming a warm climate (10+ C degrees celcius), how much percentage do you lose by just keep your Tesla Model 3 SR+ unplugged and parked. I am going up north in 2 weeks and I plan to keep my Tesla on the front lawn. I would super charger before of course. The location is about 100 KM away...

teslamotorsclub.com

Hope that helps.

Well I've seen many similar threads. And that's why I had all those features (sentry, COP, summon standby) turned off even before I posted. And mine (3~4% overnight) is still a lot worse than most people reported (0.5% to 1% a day). Nobody was really mentioning the upkeep though. I do know about it (hearing the AC fan running) and you mentioned it in one of your earlier reply as well. Just really confused on why it uses so many miles and if others ever experience the same.

Could it have anything to do with MR? Most friends of mine are driving LR.

 

[WhiteWi]

Well I've seen many similar threads. And that's why I had all those features (sentry, COP, summon standby) turned off even before I posted. And mine (3~4% overnight) is still a lot worse than most people reported (0.5% to 1% a day). Nobody was really mentioning the upkeep though. I do know about it (hearing the AC fan running) and you mentioned it in one of your earlier reply as well. Just really confused on why it uses so many miles and if others ever experience the same.

Could it have anything to do with MR? Most friends of mine are driving LR.

How often do you check your Tesla app? That could be a reason too.

 

[jjrandorin]

Well I've seen many similar threads. And that's why I had all those features (sentry, COP, summon standby) turned off even before I posted. And mine (3~4% overnight) is still a lot worse than most people reported (0.5% to 1% a day). Nobody was really mentioning the upkeep though. I do know about it (hearing the AC fan running) and you mentioned it in one of your earlier reply as well. Just really confused on why it uses so many miles and if others ever experience the same.

Could it have anything to do with MR? Most friends of mine are driving LR.

Have you tried changing your tesla password yet, even though you mention you dont use third party apps? Re reading your first post, you are not the first owner of the vehicle. It wont hurt anything for you to try this, so you should, even though you may not think you need to.

 

[jordyun]

How often do you check your Tesla app? That could be a reason too.

Basically never, during the night. Tesla confirmed that last night, the car was sleeping soundly after around 7:30pm until this morning. All the drain was during 5:30pm to 7:30pm when the car is doing the "upkeep".

 

[jordyun]

Have you tried changing your tesla password yet, even though you mention you dont use third party apps? Re reading your first post, you are not the first owner of the vehicle. It wont hurt anything for you to try this, so you should, even though you may not think you need to.

Pardon my mandarin but I'm the first owner. I meant it only had 16k miles back in April. Now @ 20k. We didn't really drive much especially in the pandemic.
I might indeed give it a try after I exhausted other options. But right now based on what Tesla is saying, it seems like it's not due to app.

In even more details, Tesla told me that, over the last two weeks, the battery drain at parking was 70% preconditioning and 18% upkeep. It doesn't really explain why I turned off the preconditioning last night and it still lost 7 miles but I'll have to monitor it for a few days to weeks. And tomorrow would be the service visit so I also hope that with a new AC filter and FSD computer it may help lower the upkeep loss too...