JeffK
Well-Known Member
but no evidence to actually show that right?
Keep in mind the P100D is supposed to have an all new cooling system.
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but no evidence to actually show that right?
Keep in mind the P100D is supposed to have an all new cooling system.
They already do, and the track record supports this. As a 2014 and 2017 Volt owner, I can say the Volt is vastly under appreciated outside of the owners. While GM has had other issues, the Volts have been rock solid.
My Volt was a solid car. For 5 years I had no serious issues (both times the dealer overfilled the oil by significant amounts, and the drive mode button failed just outside the warranty,) and it took me everywhere I wanted to go comfortably and efficiently. It was a good, solid car, better than most of what's on the market now for sure.
It wasn't a great car in the sense my X is. My X is better in pretty much every measurable way - and somehow manages the same EPA electric efficiency despite being a third heavier and far larger in every direction.
The Bolt looks like it'll build on the Volt's heritage - a solid, reliable car (I'm a little worried that it sounds like they are charging the pack to 95% or more every day, but we'll see,) but without the convenience and integration and instant wicked speed that makes a Tesla. It'll be interesting to see how the market plays once the 3 is out and not backlogged by a year or more.
An interesting phenomenon this... wherein assertions are addressed and folks press on as if the no attempt at dialog has taken place...
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
And what do you suspect Tesla might be doing? Nothing? Because they have a track record of never improving their products?
Garlan Garner
Banned
Tesla could make a version of their car with sustained high performance. They've just decided not to. The biggest issue in terms of heat is the motor design. Tesla doesn't use permanent magnets, because magnets are costly, fragile and scarse. All Tesla needs to do to get sustained high performance is redesign the drivetrain with a different motor design, and beef up the cooling on both motor and battery pack.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Over the last 4 years I have done 85% of my driving all electric in my Volt. That's pretty darn EV to me.
Dan
The volt and bolt dolts. *roll my eyes*. They are horrific cars for the money.
Volt can't hold a charge like a Tesla can in cold weather.
The bolt looks like a box on wheels. Very sad exterior design especially with a 37k price tag.
No autopilot-poor performance numbers. Roll is still a problem with the bolt. A distant neighbor bought one
and I just about lost him as a friend. Told him to test drive a 3 when they come out and compare the 2.
It won't even be close. His other car is a corvette 2015. He's considering selling it and getting a 3 after some
in depth research.
Volt can't hold a charge like a Tesla can in cold weather.
The bolt looks like a box on wheels. Very sad exterior design especially with a 37k price tag.
No autopilot-poor performance numbers. Roll is still a problem with the bolt. A distant neighbor bought one
and I just about lost him as a friend. Told him to test drive a 3 when they come out and compare the 2.
It won't even be close. His other car is a corvette 2015. He's considering selling it and getting a 3 after some
in depth research.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Hybrids get too confusing which is why I've recently started going with BEV because EV can be too ambiguous. I don't personally consider hybrids as EVs but I guess some technically are. I mean "technically" every ICE I've owned has had an alternator and a battery as well, does that mean it's electric? Without an electric starter motor the engine won't turn over on it's own... haha... sigh 
Those doesn't contribute towards propulsion though so they don't count.
Porsche 918 Spyder... EV? Hybrid? Both?
The proper definition of of EV is any vehicle which has its propulsion driven by an electric motor. I guess when I personally say EV in everyday speech I mean pure EV or nothing with an ICE.
The volt is confusing because of initial claims made by GM and how the vehicle actually operates. At first they used to claim there was no linkage between the engine and the wheels. That was however incorrect, because with extended driving the ICE is indirectly used for propulsion. It's been a source of controversy for years. It does NOT simply charge the battery for the traction motor to use.
Those doesn't contribute towards propulsion though so they don't count.Porsche 918 Spyder... EV? Hybrid? Both?
The proper definition of of EV is any vehicle which has its propulsion driven by an electric motor. I guess when I personally say EV in everyday speech I mean pure EV or nothing with an ICE.
The volt is confusing because of initial claims made by GM and how the vehicle actually operates. At first they used to claim there was no linkage between the engine and the wheels. That was however incorrect, because with extended driving the ICE is indirectly used for propulsion. It's been a source of controversy for years. It does NOT simply charge the battery for the traction motor to use.
Dan Detweiler
Active Member
Say what you will, my Volt has served me well. It has performed as advertised throughout the four years I have had it. Looking forward to my Model 3 when it comes but if for some reason that were to fall through I would not hesitate in the least in getting another Volt.
Dan
I think the Volt/Bolt detractors are missing the point entirely, Elon says much the same, when he discusses other BEV/PHEV vehicles. The Leaf and Volt have been the first really successful modestly priced entrants. Following them there are lots of others, but they were first. Both of them have been very successful, reliable and really practical.
They haven't been sexy nor stellar examples of sportiness. Were I you, I'd be irritated at these people who criticize products that are not positioned for them.
Here on TMS we should be encouraging any BEV, or PHEV, that is well conceived. Were we discussing manufacturer support for charging infrastructure our perspectives would alter somewhat.
Garlan Garner
Banned
You must not have a long commute at all. Even the new Volt is limited to 53 miles per day of travel.
2016 Volt: Hybrid Electric Cars | Chevrolet
My home is 49 miles from my job location. My definition of EV'ing is an all electric vehicle that I can use to get me from my house to my job and back - without having to possibly tow it the last 3 miles.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
We do. What we should not do is characterize them as things they are not.
Agree completely that we should not. However, a good many posts seem to diss 'lesser' cars. The rational deficiencies (e.g. Leaf battery thermal management) should certainly be factors, but even though have some potentially serious economic consequences too. OTOH, I'm old enough to remember the original Prius, about which we were all enamoured at the time. It seems to me we should distinguish in part, based on cost effectiveness. Some, including BYD, Kia, and a handful of others, seem really impressive when purchase price enters the equation seriously. Those are significant players in wide-open EV markets such as Norway.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I remember it too, though I thought it looked terrible and was not enamored with it. At this point Tesla has shown that good aerodynamics can look good, so I question those OEM's who don't even try, i.e. Leaf, iMiev, i3, etc., especially when in the case of the Leaf the bad looks don't even provide exceptional aero.
Some drive EVs as a statement. Just look at the ride in my Avatar. The Prius, LEAF, iMev, i3 are all statement designs. Honda made a Civic hybrid that was very competitive with the Prius from a spec standpoint, but it didn't sell because the buyers wanted to make a statement: "it ain't easy being green" --Kermit the Frog
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
You can make a statement with good looks as well, probably a more effective statement, as Tesla has proven.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
You are forgetting that Elon also frequently laments automakers for designing ugly EVs:
"People thought electric cars were like a golf cart: they were slow, didn't maneuver well, had low range, were ugly, didn't have much functionality."
Mr. Musk Goes to Detroit: We're Trying to Help
"We're never going to release an ugly car".
Elon Musk: It's always the quiet ones
"You know, you can make an ugly expensive car, you can make a good looking expensive car.. and the same goes for affordable good looking cars or an ugly affordable car."
Do "pretty" cars cost more to make than "ugly" cars?
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