Battery Health

[Pharway98]

We’re new to the family. We have the basic model 3 but I am told the battery is the same as the longer range one, just toggled down at headquarters. Also told that it is therefore ok to charge all the way to 100% (of my lower range ) since it is actually not 100% of the battery’s capacity.
Also, going out of town for 2 weeks and seeing different answers as to what to do with the battery. One thing I’ve read is to just leave it plugged in, but move the charge limit down to 50%. Another says to keep it charged at 100%. Obviously I don’t know what to do.

Thanks for any help! Philip

 

[jjrandorin]

We’re new to the family. We have the basic model 3 but I am told the battery is the same as the longer range one, just toggled down at headquarters.

Welcome to TMC,

I am not sure what you mean here. We dont know what you mean by "basic model 3" because you dont say what year it is, and that makes a difference. Whether its "toggled down at headquarters" or not would be determined by if you actually have an older "Model 3 SR ( NOT SR+), and they stopped making that vehicle.

What model 3 do you have exactly (year, exact model?)(

Also told that it is therefore ok to charge all the way to 100% (of my lower range ) since it is actually not 100% of the battery’s capacity.

See above, the answer to this is "it depends on what exact model 3 you have".

Also, going out of town for 2 weeks and seeing different answers as to what to do with the battery. One thing I’ve read is to just leave it plugged in, but move the charge limit down to 50%. Another says to keep it charged at 100%. Obviously I don’t know what to do.

Thanks for any help! Philip

If you can leave it plugged in and at 50% thats good. There is no reason to leave ANY tesla charged to 100% and sitting for a long period of time, no matter which one. If the question of your thread is "what do I do about leaving my car for 2 weeks?" the answer is, if possible leave it plugged in and at 50%. If not possible to leave it plugged in, dont stress about it, just dont park it with more than 90%, dont turn on sentry mode, and dont check on it all the time in the app".

 

[Pharway98]

The car is new this year, got it in July. What I mean by basic is that I paid for the lower range battery.

 

[jjrandorin]

The car is new this year, got it in July. What I mean by basic is that I paid for the lower range battery.

Ok so if its a 2022 Model 3 RWD, there is no "battery toggled down at headquarters" in that situation, so thats incorrect.

It IS, however, ok to charge to 100% for that particular tesla variant, because of the type of battery it is. Its not "toggled down at headquarters" its a specific, different type of battery that is ok to charge to 100% (and slower acceleration).

As far as going out of town for 2 weeks, that advice doesnt change from above. Plug it in and set it to 50%, or dont plug it in for that short of a trip (2 weeks) and simply ensure that sentry mode is off, cabin overheat protection is off, and you dont "check on the car" in the app more than once in a while, every few days or so.

For more on that topic, you can review this thread below, which is also on short vacations, and has a post in it with links to more threads on that topic:

Should I leave my Model 3 plugged in while on 10 day vacation?

Taking a 10 day vacation in my air breathing gas guzzling RV. Should I leave our trusty Model 3 LR plugged in during the time it is parked in the garage?

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[3sr+buyer]

The car is new this year, got it in July. What I mean by basic is that I paid for the lower range battery.

Looks like you have an LFP (lithium iron phosphate) battery. Compared to the NCA (nickel cobalt aluminum) battery in the longer range model, it is larger and heavier for the same capacity. However, LFP batteries have less and slower capacity loss compared to NCA batteries, and are less sensitive (in terms of capacity loss) to being charged to 100%. But also note that Tesla recommends charging to 100% once per week to keep the BMS (battery management system) in sync with the true state-of-charge.

With NCA batteries, it is common to charge to a lower level (e.g. 55%) for daily use, and only charge to a higher level or 100% just before a trip where that much is needed. With LFP batteries, you can charge to 100% whenever you charge if you do not want to try to manage it, or if you want to try to get a small gain in less capacity loss, charge to 70% for daily use, but 100% once per week.

LFP batteries are fairly new in Teslas; so far, it looks like year old cars with LFP batteries have been reported with around 4% capacity loss, while cars with NCA batteries have commonly seen around 10% capacity loss.

Since capacity loss is greatest while the car is parked at 100%, it is best to set your charging to finish just before you drive off. For long term storage, it is probably best to leave it plugged in with the charge target set to 50%. If not plugged in, be sure that there is enough charge that it does not discharge below 0% while you are away (sentry mode and cabin overheat protection with AC can be big drains while parked).

 

[Rubyred1]

I appreciate this link and the comments. We received a new model 3 August 31st with the LFP battery.
When we received the car, the range was reported as 273 miles. In the last week after 1200 miles, I have seen it
drop to 272 and then this morning to 271. When plug in, I leave the charge at 100% for the LFP.
Is this a normal drop or should I modify how I am charging. I appreciate any and all feedback. Thank You

 

[jjrandorin]

Is this a normal drop

Yes

or should I modify how I am charging.

Probably not.

If you want to read / join into a discussion on this topic, you could read through / join in on the following thread:

Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

Now that LFP batteries have been operating for a couple months in the US, I thought it would be useful to start a thread for people to post their experiences with degradation of LFP batteries. A major benefit of these batteries is supposed to be resistant to degradation, so let's test that claim...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Rubyred1]

Yes

Probably not.

If you want to read / join into a discussion on this topic, you could read through / join in on the following thread:

Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

Now that LFP batteries have been operating for a couple months in the US, I thought it would be useful to start a thread for people to post their experiences with degradation of LFP batteries. A major benefit of these batteries is supposed to be resistant to degradation, so let's test that claim...

teslamotorsclub.com

thanks for the feedback and direction

 

[Amacharola]

Just curious what you think of this. I took delivery of a 2023 LFP Model 3 yesterday with the 18” aero wheels. Maybe it’s the BMS, but it had 264m range with just 3 miles on the odometer. I put 215 miles on it since delivery and it still charges max to 264 instead of 272, 3% less on the first day? I’m thinking the BMS is still learning. Curious on your thoughts.

 

[Ther0ck]

If it's a LFP RWD 2023 and you have 263 miles of range, than you don't have a 60kW battery but something like 55kW. That would be a car with LFP that was introduce last year around September 2021 in the US.

 

[Amacharola]

I doubt that- Tesla has never reduced the size or offering of a battery on delivery without notice. I know that the BMS has difficulty measuring charge based on pack voltage due to it staying consistent over its state of charge

 

[jjrandorin]

Just curious what you think of this. I took delivery of a 2023 LFP Model 3 yesterday with the 18” aero wheels. Maybe it’s the BMS, but it had 264m range with just 3 miles on the odometer. I put 215 miles on it since delivery and it still charges max to 264 instead of 272, 3% less on the first day? I’m thinking the BMS is still learning. Curious on your thoughts.

My thought is, when I go to the tesla website right now (today, 10/23/2022) the RWD model 3 is quoted as the following:

267 miles. So, your car having 264 miles sounds about right, but there is no quote of 272 miles for this car right now so expecting 272 is probably wrong.

 

[Amacharola]

My thought is, when I go to the tesla website right now (today, 10/23/2022) the RWD model 3 is quoted as the following:

View attachment 866814

267 miles. So, your car having 264 miles sounds about right, but there is no quote of 272 miles for this car right now so expecting 272 is probably wrong.

Those are the 19” wheels

 

[jjrandorin]

Those are the 19” wheels

Good catch, I missed that (interesting to me that the car defaults to 19inch wheels in the configurator, sneaky tesla... sneaky!).

I am not that familiar with LFP model 3s as far as BMS configuration. Have you checked the wheel setting on your own vehicle? 8-10 miles lower than rated seems a bit strange to me, for a new vehicle.

Note that my own model 3 in 2018 was supposed to be 310, and it was 308, but 8 miles is different than 2-3.

 

[Ther0ck]

My thought is, when I go to the tesla website right now (today, 10/23/2022) the RWD model 3 is quoted as the following:

View attachment 866814

267 miles. So, your car having 264 miles sounds about right, but there is no quote of 272 miles for this car right now so expecting 272 is probably wrong.

Good catch. That's with the 19". But 18" should be around 273m.

 

[3sr+buyer]

My thought is, when I go to the tesla website right now (today, 10/23/2022) the RWD model 3 is quoted as the following:

View attachment 866814

267 miles. So, your car having 264 miles sounds about right, but there is no quote of 272 miles for this car right now so expecting 272 is probably wrong.

If you select 18" wheels, the estimated range will change to 272 miles.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

If you select 18" wheels, the estimated range will change to 272 miles.

I assume you meant on the web page, and not in the car?

So @Amacharola should still be seeing 272 miles in the car (and it should not change based on wheel selection unless Tesla has an EPA estimate for 19" wheels which it looks like they don't based on the above capture (just says "Est.") . In any case presumably he has 18" selected anyway in the GUI since he has 18".

I wouldn't have taken delivery of this car personally. Too much of a hassle to stress about this after the fact. Seems like a big discrepancy and hopefully it's just the BMS.

I’m thinking the BMS is still learning.

On rare occasions, big (and temporary) discrepancies like this occur, but it's the exception rather than the rule. You can try discharging a bunch then recharging to 100% again; maybe it's more common for it to have big errors with LFP but my impression was that charging to 100% should give it a pretty good idea of capacity.

Anyway, seems weird. Hopefully you're right but I wouldn't count on it. Anyway there's nothing you can do.

If it's a LFP RWD 2023 and you have 263 miles of range, than you don't have a 60kW battery but something like 55kW. That would be a car with LFP that was introduce last year around September 2021 in the US.

That's incorrect. That vehicle had about 253 rated miles of range apparently, according to a window sticker posted around here. The 263-mile range was for the SR+ with the NCA battery (and it didn't even have to be the 53.5kWh NCA version (L-type) I think but I'd have to poke around old posts to figure that out).

 

[Ther0ck]

I assume you meant on the web page, and not in the car?

So @Amacharola should still be seeing 272 miles in the car (and it should not change based on wheel selection unless Tesla has an EPA estimate for 19" wheels which it looks like they don't based on the above capture (just says "Est.") . In any case presumably he has 18" selected anyway in the GUI since he has 18".

I wouldn't have taken delivery of this car personally. Too much of a hassle to stress about this after the fact. Seems like a big discrepancy and hopefully it's just the BMS.



On rare occasions, big (and temporary) discrepancies like this occur, but it's the exception rather than the rule. You can try discharging a bunch then recharging to 100% again; maybe it's more common for it to have big errors with LFP but my impression was that charging to 100% should give it a pretty good idea of capacity.

Anyway, seems weird. Hopefully you're right but I wouldn't count on it. Anyway there's nothing you can do.


That's incorrect. That vehicle had about 253 rated miles of range apparently, according to a window sticker posted around here. The 263-mile range was for the SR+ with the NCA battery (and it didn't even have to be the 53.5kWh NCA version (L-type) I think but I'd have to poke around old posts to figure that out).

You are correct. Typo on my end.

 

[Amacharola]

Small update on my end. I set up a service appointment in Lancaster PA to have it checked for the less than expected range on day 1 with 3 miles on the odometer.

It has had some interesting developments leading up to the appointment. I noticed it would hit 100%, show 264m and still be pulling a full 32 amps when charging. It would pull this for about 20-30 minutes.

Yesterday, leading up to the appointment, it charged to 266 miles.

At the appointment, the advisor had it checked and reported back that the health condition is perfect, but it seems to be an algorithm or software issue as their battery experts (don’t know if in CA or TX) said the car is “still learning itself” and continue to monitor.

This morning, it now charged to 268. It’s definitely been different with owning an LFP pack than an NCA pack like my old car- but so far so good as I still like it better.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

it now charged to 268.

Good to hear. My guess is you’ll be at 272 in a couple weeks. Seen this sort of thing rarely on NCA packs, maybe more common on LFP?

But it seems to be an “initial transient” thing where the pack just has a really bad initial guess and then it takes a while to iterate towards the right answer. Or something. As they say, “learning.”

Presumably won’t happen again (large errors in general would mean a poor quality BMS).