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Battery Heating

ngogas

Active Member
Sep 19, 2018
1,725
1,195
Utah
Some folks keep insisting that the model 3 don’t have the battery heating element like other model from Tesla. This morning it was cold and I start the interior heater and I see the battery heater comes on in my app. Did I miss something? Is the heating element that comes on uses the motor to warm itself up?

Either way it is pretty cool.
 

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voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,509
5,588
Colorado
Some folks keep insisting that the model 3 don’t have the battery heating element like other model from Tesla. This morning it was cold and I start the interior heater and I see the battery heater comes on in my app. Did I miss something? Is the heating element that comes on uses the motor to warm itself up?

Either way it is pretty cool.

That's not a "battery heater". That is your climate control being on and showing you it is warming the passenger cabin.
 
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voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,509
5,588
Colorado
@voip-ninja thanks for messaging me and calling me a troll when I didn’t quote you on this post during my reply. You don’t know the answer to this so instead you call a user a troll.

Then report my post. Oh wait, I realized I shouldn't call someone out in this thread and deleted my post within 15 seconds of posting it, but you just can't let it go, can you?

The Model 3 does not have a battery heater that works while the car is parked.

Go look at the parts catalog for the Model 3 and let us know where this mystery part is at so we can all learn more about it.
 
I don’t have the heated seats on. Unless it’s a software glitch.
It went away after 10 minutes as you can see from my second pic.

When I preheat the car - even with the heated seat controls set off - when I get into the car the seat _seems_ warmer than it should be, basically lukewarm, however I seriously doubt the heat has been in the car long enough to warm up the cold leather.

Maybe part of the preheat sequence is to warm up the seats? I know it also runs the rear defroster because I can see the heat affecting/clearing the frost, and I definitely don't tell it to do that.
 

ngogas

Active Member
Sep 19, 2018
1,725
1,195
Utah
When I preheat the car - even with the heated seat controls set off - when I get into the car the seat _seems_ warmer than it should be, basically lukewarm, however I seriously doubt the heat has been in the car long enough to warm up the cold leather.

Maybe part of the preheat sequence is to warm up the seats? I know it also runs the rear defroster because I can see the heat affecting/clearing the frost, and I definitely don't tell it to do that.

That is a good point. I never noticed that about the seats or the defroster. I just know that on other models, the same icon appears for the battery warming element. I was surprise to see it on my model 3 and was curious what it really means.
 
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ngogas

Active Member
Sep 19, 2018
1,725
1,195
Utah
This is incorrect. The Model 3 does have battery heating, but not by way of a bespoke heater like the Model S & X. The 3 can heat the battery coolant loop by commanding the drive inverter to generate an inefficient wave form to the motor. This creates heat (up to 4 kW worth) but no propulsion. Battery heating will be enabled during pre-conditioning just like the S & X, according to the manual.
In another thread, i think @Big Earl answer all the question. Looks like model 3 has battery heating.

Battery heating is only started below a certain threshold (I don't know the exact temperature on the Model 3), which is lower than when regen starts to get limited. Pre-heating will not completely restore regen that has been limited due to cold battery temperature.

I think - but can't confirm, as it hasn't gotten cold enough here - that battery heating will warm the battery enough to get rid of the blue battery limitation.
That sounds right, my garage this morning was below 40 degree F. And right, pre-heating did not completely restore my region when i left this morning. Yes, i think it does heat just enough to get rid of the blue battery indicator but my it wasn't cold enough for my blue indicator to come on. But preheating/preconditioning is good for a model 3 that is cold as i saw this morning.
 
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mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
16,660
62,804
Michigan
Then report my post. Oh wait, I realized I shouldn't call someone out in this thread and deleted my post within 15 seconds of posting it, but you just can't let it go, can you?

The Model 3 does not have a battery heater that works while the car is parked.

Go look at the parts catalog for the Model 3 and let us know where this mystery part is at so we can all learn more about it.

The drive unit is used as a heater via altered drive waveforms or such.
If the 3 had no battery heater that worked when parked, a cold pack could never be charged...
Even when parked, Tesla’s software can send a request to the powertrain inverter to start powering up and pass the appropriate currents to the motor in order to produce enough heat to warm the cells – all while not producing any torque so the Model 3 doesn’t move.
https://electrek.co/2017/08/24/tesla-model-3-exclusive-battery-pack-architecture/
 

voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,509
5,588
Colorado
The drive unit is used as a heater via altered drive waveforms or such.
If the 3 had no battery heater that worked when parked, a cold pack could never be charged...

Tesla Model 3: Exclusive first look at Tesla’s new battery pack architecture

This is where the confusion comes in;

For example, it got rid of the external battery pack heater and instead, it heats the pack only using heat provided by the powertrain even when the car is parked.

It had widely been reported that the Model-3 did not have an auxillary heater for warming up the battery when it was parked. I understood that the pack could "self-heat" by way of some pack discharge but it's never been clear that it utilized the power-train to do this even when the car was parked. I knew that when the pack was discharging it could recoup waste heat to further warm the battery.

If the Tesla app visually denotes this is happening then it's relatively new, and I've never seen it, even when the car is parked in a 30F garage.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
8,013
16,155
La Conner, WA
That is a good point. I never noticed that about the seats or the defroster. I just know that on other models, the same icon appears for the battery warming element. I was surprise to see it on my model 3 and was curious what it really means.

The battery heating icon looks like a small red battery with a snowflake in the middle of it.

b5yuhi4qkw601.png
 
That is a good point. I never noticed that about the seats or the defroster. I just know that on other models, the same icon appears for the battery warming element. I was surprise to see it on my model 3 and was curious what it really means.

As a test I just attempted a preheat. The outside temperature is just above freezing.

I notice the defrost is indicated, as well as the wavy lines.
 

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mongo

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2017
16,660
62,804
Michigan
The battery heating icon looks like a small red battery with a snowflake in the middle of it.

b5yuhi4qkw601.png
Unless the 3 imagery is different.

@voip-ninja the battery ESR is so low discharge would need to be crazy high to heat it (and you would need some place for all that heat/energy to go)
Likely running motor one coil at a time and relying on winding resistance for heat instead (maybe high frequency switching losses also). There is also a large resistor array in the drive inverter, but it didn't look like a heat source.
 

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