Battery is big disappointment

[chronopc]

You have put yourself in the shoes of people who don't know much about EVs or about the inside of a Tesla.
The price per mile is lower with the Bolt than with the Model 3 so on paper if you want the most miles for your dollar at a sub $30k price point after fed tax credit then the Bolt is the better option. If these people have a local Tesla gallery then they might think differently but these are still pretty sparse.

If you want to get the cheapest price per mile go with the extended range Tesla.

No one thinks the Bolt is a better option. There' a reason why the Model 3 has over 500k reservations and the Bolts are collecting dust at the dealership.

Also last I checked 220 > 215+.

 

[JeffK]

If you want to get the cheapest price per mile go with the extended range Tesla.

No one thinks the Bolt is a better option. There' a reason why the Model 3 has over 500k reservations and the Bolts are collecting dust at the dealership.

Also last I checked 220 > 215+.

I could be wrong on my math here, but last time I checked $44k - $7.5k full tax credit (if you can get it) was greater than $30k (see my quote).

 

[gregincal]

You have put yourself in the shoes of people who don't know much about EVs or about the inside of a Tesla.
The price per mile is lower with the Bolt than with the Model 3 so on paper if you want the most miles for your dollar at a sub $30k price point after fed tax credit then the Bolt is the better option. If these people have a local Tesla gallery then they might think differently but these are still pretty sparse.

I can't imagine such people are going to calculate range per dollar as the basis of their buying decision. Both are similarly priced cars with similar ranges, so the decision will fall on other factors.

 

[JeffK]

I can't imagine such people are going to calculate range per dollar as the basis of their buying decision. Both are similarly priced cars with similar ranges, so the decision will fall on other factors.

It's America... bigger is better and we love instant gratification. Every Bolt sold is a potential lost Model 3 sale. Some people are also die-hard hatchback lovers.

The effect of advertising more miles for slightly more money and you can get one immediately will sway quite a few people. Not tens of thousands of course... but still.

 

[butchmank9]

I totally believe that tesla will upgrade the S and X with the new battery type with way more range. Then you will see lots of customers switch over to them vehicles.

 

[JeffK]

I totally believe that tesla will upgrade the S and X with the new battery type with way more range. Then you will see lots of customers switch over to them vehicles.

It doesn't work like that.

 

[scaesare]

If you want to get the cheapest price per mile go with the extended range Tesla.

No one thinks the Bolt is a better option. There' a reason why the Model 3 has over 500k reservations and the Bolts are collecting dust at the dealership.

Also last I checked 220 > 215+.

Interestingly if you add the Bolt's $750 DC fast charging option to more directly compare the models, It gets edged out at @160.69/mile...

 

[chronopc]

it was 215+ and you forget the Chevy Bolt came out in between the two events.

You make it sound l

I could be wrong on my math here, but last time I checked $44k - $7.5k full tax credit (if you can get it) was greater than $30k (see my quote).

Why does it have to be under $30k after full tax credit? If you want to limit a dollar amount the Model 3 is the cheapest EV per mile $35k or under with no credit.

 

[JeffK]

Why does it have to be under $30k after full tax credit? If you want to limit a dollar amount the Model 3 is the cheapest EV per mile $35k or under with no credit.

It has to be because that was the premise you were responding to in my quote. In addition the average new car sells for $32-33k meaning half the new vehicles sold are under this price.

 

[chronopc]

It has to be because that was the premise you were responding to in my quote. In addition the average new car sells for $32-33k meaning half the new vehicles sold are under this price.

And you're responding to a thread where the OP mentioned that $9000 to upgrade from 220 to 310 isn't great. But if you do the math like you are telling other people to do, it is great because it makes the Model 3 the cheapest EV per mile.

 

[JeffK]

And you're responding to a thread where the OP mentioned that $9000 to upgrade from 220 to 310 isn't great. But if you do the math like you are telling other people to do, it is great because it makes the Model 3 the cheapest EV per mile.

You have to actually read the post. If the $9000 is too much money then the Bolt is cheaper per mile than the base Model 3.
This is especially true if someone places an order right now and they won't be eligible for the full tax credit.

 

[JonathanD]

You have to actually read the post. If the $9000 is too much money then the Bolt is cheaper per mile than the base Model 3.
This is especially true if someone places an order right now and they won't be eligible for the full tax credit.

But if cost is your only consideration you can purchase a nicely equipped Nissan Versa tomorrow that will have a lower lifetime operating cost than either of them. I only bring this up because a Bolt looks more like a Versa than it looks like a Model 3, both in terms of size and aesthetics.

 

[JeffK]

But if cost is your only consideration you can purchase a nicely equipped Nissan Versa tomorrow that will have a lower lifetime operating cost than either of them. I only bring this up because a Bolt looks more like a Versa than it looks like a Model 3, both in terms of size and aesthetics.

True, but we are talking EVs. If just looking at pure range/$ at around or under the $30k price point after tax credit.
Think: broke environmentalist hippies who think GMOs are the devil and need longer range than a leaf can provide (and love hatchbacks). Like people from Portland, OR.

My wife is from Portland, so I'm allowed to make that joke

 

[JonathanD]

True, but we are talking EVs. If just looking at pure range/$ at around or under the $30k price point after tax credit.
Think: broke environmentalist hippies who think GMOs are the devil and need longer range than a leaf can provide (and love hatchbacks). Like people from Portland, OR.

My wife is from Portland, so I'm allowed to make that joke

I get it, but even if you want to look at it from a pure carbon footprint perspective, there are likely less impactful vehicles in either case.

 

[JeffK]

I get it, but even if you want to look at it from a pure carbon footprint perspective, there are likely less impactful vehicles in either case.

Like a bicycle...

 

[crouch]

So when Musk said the battery would get 218 miles everyone was like shut up and take my money. Now when he says it's 220 miles the battery range sucks? Makes sense.

Everybody on this board and every other board thought the base would come in higher than 220 miles, so there is some disappointment there.

But the bigger "range sucks" issue is the $9000 cost to get any more range. A lot of people thought whether the base is 225 or 245, they would get the next level up battery for about $5k more to lessen their range anxiety. 310 miles is super great, but $9000 extra is just too much for a lot of people interested in a $35k-ish car (regardless of the value proposition of that particular 90 mile upgrade). I think a great way to reduce disappointment would be to offer a 280 mile model for an additional $6k or less (or 270 for an extra $5k or less). Not sure it's technically feasible or would make the best financial sense to Tesla, but it would mollify me and others who need/want more range than the base but not to the tune of adding more than 25% to the cost of the base car.

Add to that the few other kicks to the gut for the value conscious (no all glass roof with a battery upgrade but instead pony up another $5k for stuff you might not want, expensive autopilot, etc) and the shine is off Tesla and Elon a bit for me (and this from a guy who has wanted a Tesla since the Roadster and has read just about every Tesla article in existence and way too many posts on these boards to admit). A single upgrade (larger battery) vaults the cost of the car beyond Elon's $42k average transaction cost mentioned only a year ago.

 

[Jeff N]

Interestingly if you add the Bolt's $750 DC fast charging option to more directly compare the models, It gets edged out at @160.69/mile...

Not if you add in the missing and mandatory ~$1,000 destination/delivery fee to the Model 3's $35,000 price. That fee is already baked into the Bolt EV price used in the chart.

And, the Bolt offers four paint shades between white and black and three optional premium colors for an extra $395 whereas the Model 3's base price only includes the generally unpopular color of black and every other color is $1,000 more.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Not if you add in the missing and mandatory ~$1,000 destination/delivery fee to the Model 3's $35,000 price. That fee is already baked into the Bolt EV price used in the chart.

And, the Bolt offers four paint shades between white and black and three optional premium colors for an extra $395 whereas the Model 3's base price only includes the generally unpopular color of black and every other color is $1,000 more.

If we're going to start nitpicking standard features here, then you need to include the fact that the Model 3 will come standard with active safety features that are not only options on the Bolt, but require the Premier trim level.

 

[Jeff N]

If we're going to start nitpicking standard features here, then you need to include the fact that the Model 3 will come standard with active safety features that are not only options on the Bolt, but require the Premier trim level.

That's fair to an extent. However, I think the mandatory destination fee is not nitpicking.

 

[SageBrush]

For the 220, what would real world range probably be in winter months in the northeast assuming mostly 75-80 mph on highway?

If my daily commute is about 100 miles round trip (with no charger available at work), do I almost certainly need the 310?

No

My commute is 90 miles and I live in Colorado. The 220 Model 3 is more than enough range.