TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

Battery pricing difference.

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Sir Guacamolaf, Aug 8, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    My Model S
    Model S 100D versus 75D price difference: $22k
    Model 3 50 vs 75 price difference: $9K

    I can't help but think that

    100kwh battery pack has a huge profit margin built into it.
    75 battery packs are reasonably priced for both.
    50 is either at a loss to meet their 35k goal or is future looking when gigafactory is able to bring pricing down .. and hopefully we will see a downward revision of all prices then.

    But damn, the 100kwh pack is over priced. Isn't it?
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. kev1n

    kev1n Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    402
    Location:
    Bay Area
    especially with the recent performance increase of the 75D, there really is no reason for anyone to buy the 100D unless they need over 260 range daily
     
    • Like x 2
  3. ZAKEEUS

    ZAKEEUS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    263
    Location:
    Denham Springs, Louisiana
    Different cells coming from different places....but 100D does have a high profit margin, of it didn't, they wouldn't be a Model 3.
     
  4. jaguar36

    jaguar36 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,307
    Location:
    NJ
    I want the 100D because when I go on a trip and stay at a hotel without charging I don't want to be having to dash back to the supercharger every other day. We've got an 85 and its been an issue numerous times in the past where a 100D would have made a huge difference.

    That price difference sure is hard to swallow for those times though. I'd love to see the sales breakdown between the 75 and the 100.
     
    • Like x 1
  5. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    My Model S
    Yes but 100D at this point is almost akin to making a donation to Tesla. Might as well allocate the extra cash towards their bond purchase and make it mutually beneficial.

    @jaguar36 indeed. Massive range is the only reason for 100D at this point. However as the supercharger network gets better, this reason is diminishing every single day. I'd be willing to bet that tesla sells a lot more 75s than 100s.
     
  6. KarenRei

    KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei KarenRei

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,452
    Location:
    Iceland
    Model S packs are higher energy density and charge faster at superchargers. They also come with an unlimited mileage warranty. You get what you pay for.
     
  7. Tiger

    Tiger Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    495
    Location:
    Estonia
    Longer range should be inherently more durable (because it is used less % on average) and thus the warranty should not really make an exponential impact.

    Current price difference between 75D and 100D is almost $1000 per kWh, quite a premium there assuming it costs $100 per kWh to produce (before profit).

    Someone's got some explaining to do ;)
     
  8. boaterva

    boaterva Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2016
    Messages:
    2,908
    Location:
    Northern Virginia, USA
    I agree on all fronts; however I got the 100 since I intend to keep this new car for a long time and would like the pack to have as few problems as possible. And as was mentioned, trips to places where the SuC network isn't as built out then mean not as much fiddling with extension cords.
     
  9. shokunin

    shokunin P85 & S40

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Messages:
    1,137
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Actually the price difference is $23,000 between the 75 and 100. If you pony up another $4,500 + delivery fee you could buy a base no-option model 3 after tax credit AND a Model S 75D for the same price as Model S 100D.

    Tesla never reduced the prices for the top end pack even after multiple price increases for the 90kwh pack +$3,000 and the 100kw pack +$10,000.

    Make no sense that they kept the base level car at the same price while increasing the base pack from 60 to 75kwh.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Tiger

    Tiger Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    495
    Location:
    Estonia
    I will be expecting either price 100D price drop by 23K or new 130kWh at same price.
     
    • Like x 2
  11. Navsarin

    Navsarin SP100D

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    Canada
    #11 Navsarin, Aug 9, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
    While I don't agree with such a large increase between 75D and 100D, Here's another perspective:

    55" led TV : $799
    65" led TV: $1299
    75" led TV: $2499
    90" led TV: $4999
    100"...let's not go there.

    Each increase in size results in a much larger increase in price. One would assume it would remain constant based solely on size. Not so. Profit margins are also based on sales volume and recovery of costs, r&d per unit sold. The cost for Tesla to produce 100Kwh batteries may actually be higher per unit sold (cost of good sold) than of a 75kwh based in part on the actual sales of 100Kwh batteries vs 75.

    Conversely with M3, the difference in price between a 55kwh and 75kwh would not be as high due to projected volume sales of both batteries. We're also dealing with 500,000 pre orders which is 4-5x the current sales volume of the model S/X. They don't need to recover as much profit off each upgrade. Tesla would not be the first product or industry to effectively charge higher spreads based on sales projected sales volumes for different product lines.

    I would submit that eventually as more and more sales occur in the 75kwh range, and with a nominal increase in battery technology year over year, the 100Kwh battery will come down in price and a new larger 110/120kwh would be the new king of the hill at an even greater price difference. Low volume = high margins.

    This doesn't mean Tesla shouldn't adjust its 75 - 100 margin downwards to limit a sharp decline in 100Kwh sales. They should to keep a healthy sales volume. Margin wise in the sales cycle of a product, its never a matter of IF...it's a measure of WHEN.
     
    • Like x 2
  12. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,040
    Location:
    Texas/Washington
    I expect an increase in battery size for the 75 up to 85, and a corresponding increase in base price. Thus the difference in price per kWh is mitigated. This will happen as M3 deliveries ramp up.
     
  13. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,840
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    #13 croman, Aug 9, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2017
    @Navsarin LCD panels are much harder to make larger. It is not easily scalable. You have a lot more inefficiency making large panels. Not the greatest comparison because battery packs are linear and scalable. Though I agree with the overall point. There is definitely a cost to be had for having the largest of something.

    I think the best analogy is flash storage. Its not linear but it should be. A 16GB stick is like $5 but a 64GB stick is like $30.
     
    • Like x 1
  14. Navsarin

    Navsarin SP100D

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Messages:
    392
    Location:
    Canada
    I agree. The memory storage is also a great example. I was showing how market pricing is more than just the sum of the actual product. I wonder if there is added complexity (and thus cost) in condensing packs to fit on the same physical space.
     
  15. croman

    croman Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    1,840
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    @Navsarin - whoops, selected the wrong username. Sorry! There is some added complexity in making larger packs fit within a fixed space (Elon analogized the 100kwh pack as fitting 11 gallons of water in a 10 gallon bucket) but that's somewhat Tesla's decision. If the 100 design is really that much more expensive I don't think it is worth the premium. I just see this as yet another way for Tesla to increase the gross margins on their vehicles while providing only marginal improvements.
     
  16. bkp_duke

    bkp_duke Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2016
    Messages:
    906
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    ROFL. Whoever said manufacturing cost determines pricing?

    Tesla of course is in their full rights to price the 100 pack through the roof. The top end of . . . well anything . . . is never priced linearly.
     
    • Like x 2
  17. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    My Model S
    100D is the Macbook of the automotive world.
    It's a very unique product, so Tesla can command whatever price they want.

    The only product cannibalizing 100D sales, is 75D. So I feel you won't see a 23K price drop anytime soon. Maybe a 3K drop, but not 23K.
     

Share This Page