Battery runs out with 16% indicated range remaining

[RGagne1975]

I have had my model s now for just over 2 weeks. It's a used p90d with some miles on it but I didn't expect for such a significant battery degradation. It's advertised at 294 miles/charge but at max I'm getting 254. The service tech called me to say that based on his internal description for this model it's only supposed to provide 270 at which time I then sent him the paperwork shown on the tesla website as well as the discussion I had with another tech who said it seems as if there a problem with the battery as the previous owner must have let the battery die once or twice.

It seems strange to assume that any owner would "let the battery die". Can anyone tell me if their similar model gets close to this 294 est and how challenging was it to get the service people to replace the battery?

I own a S90D (non-performance). It was advertised at 294 max range and it used to charge to that rating. Whenever I took long trips it would never come close to its rating though. The car would drop to around 270 after about 10 miles of driving. Now the car only charges to 274-277 max. I have had the car for 2 years now. The first drop occurred after an update mid last year which put the max at 285 then a second drop occurred a few updates later which put it at 277. The Ranger that came out to replace my screen said to bring it in if another drop occurs.

 

[MP3Mike]

I have had my model s now for just over 2 weeks. It's a used p90d with some miles on it but I didn't expect for such a significant battery degradation. It's advertised at 294 miles/charge but at max I'm getting 254. The service tech called me to say that based on his internal description for this model it's only supposed to provide 270 at which time I then sent him the paperwork shown on the tesla website as well as the discussion I had with another tech who said it seems as if there a problem with the battery as the previous owner must have let the battery die once or twice.

The Tesla tech is correct that a Model S P90D came rated for 270 miles. (294 is for the non-performance 90D model.)

Can anyone tell me if their similar model gets close to this 294 est and how challenging was it to get the service people to replace the battery?

You do realize that the battery warranty doesn't cover gradual degradation right? And a 6% loss is pretty typical to start out with, so I would say that your chance of getting a replacement battery is 0%.

 

[tech4cars]

View attachment 358070

A couple days ago, while cruising along the freeway at 70mph my Model S abruptly shut off with no warning, claiming that the battery power was too low. There were no limit lines until the split second before it shut off. However, there should have been plenty of range remaining - the indicated battery charge level was 16%. It wasn't cold either - the outside temperature was 57 F.

Fortunately this happened just a few blocks from home. So, several minutes later upon completing my unscheduled cardio workout, the car was back home and plugged in so it could charge up. However, there was an error message on the dash saying "charge level will be restricted" and it wouldn't pull any more than 5 amps. Upon reaching an indicated 19% SOC it stopped altogether, claiming "charging complete".

View attachment 358073

After unplugging and plugging in a few times, and then switching to a 120V trickle charge, a few hours later I was finally able to coax it up to 20% at which point it was able to start charging normally again.

So, there were two problems: (1) running out of juice at 16% SOC, and (2) the car was reluctant to get past 19% SOC after running out.

This was actually the second time this has happened. The first time was a couple weeks ago. It has gone below 16% a handful of times before but has never run out suddenly like this, and there were always limit lines to warn me that it was getting low.

I called the service center, and they checked remotely and said the vehicle isn't reporting any issues with the battery. I'm taking it to the service center next week, so we'll see how that goes.

I've always been very careful with the battery, or so I thought - attempting to stay within the 20-80% area as much as possible, and using range mode - so I certainly didn't expect this. Has anyone else experienced running out with significant remaining range? Any idea what could have gone wrong here?

 

[tech4cars]

When charging at home, did you notice if your charging adapter was flashing the LED with any codes (1 - 5 blinks, red or green)?

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

When a battery is needing to be replaced - can an owner request installing a 100 pack instead of a 75 pack? Extra cost, sure, but can one upgrade during this process? Further - the new 100 packs may have 2170 cells. Would this be an upgrade - or are the 18650 cells such well tested workhorses, that a change would not be an upgrade?

 

[mckemie]

I wonder if those with either refurbished batteries or new batteries have shared my experience. My battery failed with some of the symptoms mentioned above. When I got a replacement, I immediately noticed that maximum SuperCharge power was less than 90kw; the old battery never got close to 120kw but consistently got as high as 110kw.
The first service center response was that all SuperChargers had been cut back to 90kw. A short tour with my newer S put that lie to rest; it typically charges very near 120kw at many different SuperChargers. Then, they've repeated said that it was charging "normally" and ask for details about time of day, temperature, sharing of stalls and so forth. None of those conditions are the problem. I think I am losing 15 minutes or more at each SuperCharger.

 

[ucmndd]

When a battery is needing to be replaced - can an owner request installing a 100 pack instead of a 75 pack? Extra cost, sure, but can one upgrade during this process? Further - the new 100 packs may have 2170 cells. Would this be an upgrade - or are the 18650 cells such well tested workhorses, that a change would not be an upgrade?

Sure, you can request anything you want. If you got Tesla to say yes, you’d be the first.

 

[roblab]

Sure, you can request anything you want. If you got Tesla to say yes, you’d be the first.

or Tesla would do it... for a price.

 

[ucmndd]

or Tesla would do it... for a price.

They’d be the first person to get Tesla to say yes even to that.

 

[MP3Mike]

Further - the new 100 packs may have 2170 cells.

Very doubtful at this point. Maybe some time late this year. But when they make that change it will no longer be a 100kWh pack. It will be a Standard/Mid/Long/Very-Long range pack.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

They’d be the first person to get Tesla to say yes even to that.

My service guy has not said NO to any reasonable request. You must have some experience that give to the "never Yes" point of view. Do you think it is just you, or a widespread affliction?

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

Very doubtful at this point. Maybe some time late this year. But when they make that change it will no longer be a 100kWh pack. It will be a Standard/Mid/Long/Very-Long range pack.

So two questions here - 1) are 2170 cells "better" than 18650 cells. If it was a zero cost decision - would I choose the pile on the left or the pile on the right?
2) If I did get the chance to buy the bigger pack...would having just the battery make my car a true 100d? or would it be a wanna-be? what would I be missing?
and the third question I just got - could I buy the performance features? insane/ludicrous in the same step as getting the bigger battery?

 

[MP3Mike]

So two questions here - 1) are 2170 cells "better" than 18650 cells. If it was a zero cost decision - would I choose the pile on the left or the pile on the right?
2) If I did get the chance to buy the bigger pack...would having just the battery make my car a true 100d? or would it be a wanna-be? what would I be missing?
and the third question I just got - could I buy the performance features? insane/ludicrous in the same step as getting the bigger battery?

1) Depends on how you define better. 2170 cells are more energy dense and cheaper. But I think they put out less power.
2) I seem to recall that Tesla had to replace the front seats in the P90Ds that were upgraded to P100Ds to meet the crash test results. So you might have to pay to have seats replaced as well.
3) No, unless they replace the rear motor with the performance rear motor as well.

But I would say your chances of getting a larger pack are about 0.000000000001%.

I don't think I have seen a report of a defective 75 kWh pack yet, is there something wrong with yours?

Note: We have seen case of 60s getting upgrade to 75s, and 85s getting upgraded to 90s during a warranty replacement.

 

[AZ Desert Driver]

1) Depends on how you define better. 2170 cells are more energy dense and cheaper. But I think they put out less power.
2) I seem to recall that Tesla had to replace the front seats in the P90Ds that were upgraded to P100Ds to meet the crash test results. So you might have to pay to have seats replaced as well.
3) No, unless they replace the rear motor with the performance rear motor as well.

But I would say your chances of getting a larger pack are about 0.000000000001%.

I don't think I have seen a report of a defective 75 kWh pack yet, is there something wrong with yours?

Note: We have seen case of 60s getting upgrade to 75s, and 85s getting upgraded to 90s during a warranty replacement.

My battery pack is "misbehaving" - The 'not ready to regen' lite comes on at all ranges of charge % and at warm (50F) temperatures. It also goes off at its whim that does not seem to correlate to anything. From this I presume that the wonderful Battery Management System is detecting something and reporting it. Do I have a cell cluster cratering? If so, then the discussions above are quite relevant and I need to contemplate a new reality. I have a 60D that was uncorked to a 75D.

 

[ucmndd]

My battery pack is "misbehaving" - The 'not ready to regen' lite comes on at all ranges of charge % and at warm (50F) temperatures. It also goes off at its whim that does not seem to correlate to anything. From this I presume that the wonderful Battery Management System is detecting something and reporting it. Do I have a cell cluster cratering? If so, then the discussions above are quite relevant and I need to contemplate a new reality. I have a 60D that was uncorked to a 75D.

I don’t think that’s any sort of indication of misbehaving. Does it happen only when the car is cold or after it has fully reached operating temp (potentially 50+ miles)?

 

[ucmndd]

My service guy has not said NO to any reasonable request. You must have some experience that give to the "never Yes" point of view. Do you think it is just you, or a widespread affliction?

My experience is that Tesla has little to no incentive to conflate warranty repairs with upgrades at customer request and I can’t see any viable situation where they’re going to start doing this.

Down the road when we’re talking post-warranty battery replacements? Possibly. But that does seem to potentially trigger some odd safety related issues that were eluded to above. The few P90D cars that actually got the 100kwh battery upgrade needed their seats replaced to meet the crash testing demands placed on them by NHTSA, presumably because in the eye of the regulator that change made the car a different “model” and thus it needed to update all relevant safety parts to the new version to maintain its safety rating.

The regulatory bodies are going to need to catch up to this idea before it’s common and mainstream.

 

[M3PD]

My battery pack is "misbehaving" - The 'not ready to regen' lite comes on at all ranges of charge % and at warm (50F) temperatures. It also goes off at its whim that does not seem to correlate to anything. From this I presume that the wonderful Battery Management System is detecting something and reporting it. Do I have a cell cluster cratering? If so, then the discussions above are quite relevant and I need to contemplate a new reality. I have a 60D that was uncorked to a 75D.

I also think this is fairly normal. I have a Model S 60D that was upgraded to 75D and uncorked, as well as a Model 3 Performance. They both have limited regen at 50F. It has to be about 55-60F to avoid this. I generally notice the warning from the start of driving, and sometimes it goes off after warming up for 15 or 20 minutes. It would be strange to see it turn on randomly while driving in >60F conditions. If it starts doing that I would say it's a bit of a concern.

 

[Branzo90D]

I also think this is fairly normal. I have a Model S 60D that was upgraded to 75D and uncorked, as well as a Model 3 Performance. They both have limited regen at 50F. It has to be about 55-60F to avoid this. I generally notice the warning from the start of driving, and sometimes it goes off after warming up for 15 or 20 minutes. It would be strange to see it turn on randomly while driving in >60F conditions. If it starts doing that I would say it's a bit of a concern.

My experience with my 2015 Model S P90DL is also quite similar. Limited regen first thing in the morning with air temps at 50F or lowr.

 

[dhanson865]

They’d be the first person to get Tesla to say yes even to that.

2nd, there was one, and only one person to ever get a capacity upgrade from tesla in the Model S.

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh

 

[ucmndd]

2nd, there was one, and only one person to ever get a capacity upgrade from tesla in the Model S.

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh

I’m not implying that Tesla won’t swap out a battery, at the owner’s request and cost, for a non-warranty issue. Seems at least a few have been done. I didn’t get the impression that’s what the OP was asking. He seemed to be trying to finagle a warranty issue into a customer-initiated capacity upgrade, and I don’t see that happening.