Battery swap?

[Michelle_eriw]

Let me clarify something. I have said more than once that I understand why Tesla canceled battery swaps; it is financially and technically unfeasible. I get that.

I also said that if it were technically and financially feasible, it would be a great marketing feature. Further, if it were technically and financially feasible, all the arguments presented here would be invalid, because they would already have been addressed.

 

[ThomasD]

Most U haul centers will fill propane tanks if they are in good shape Propane delivery companies will also fill tanks that are in good condition

 

[vsansal]

The battery swap would have worked nicely if you didn't own the battery but leased it. So you wouldn't care about what battery back you would get out of the swap since you would never own it. There are some companies that do that in Europe. Not the swap but the battery lease. I believe Renault is one of them. The idea I guess was to lower the initial cost and you pay a fee to use the battery. They also let the owners upgrade to the lastest battery pack ,which is larger in capacity, when they became available. Might have worked great if we had that option so you always get the latest battery tech and the older ones are refurbished for something else. I would have considered leasing option and it would have removed the stress about battery degradation.

 

[Gasaraki]

When I first read about the Model S way back in 2012 or so, I seem to recall that Tesla was going to offer the option of pulling into a Tesla service station and having them swap batteries, as a speedier alternative to recharging.

Am I imagining this, or was this something actually announced?

Yes, very early on but it is now useless since supercharging is way faster now than it used to be.

 

[Rocky_H]

How in the WORLD did we get to page 2 on this thread without someone giving the link to the thread about the battery swap station that was actually in operation at Harris Ranch for about a year?! That thread is 29 pages long. This forum has short memories I guess. Here's a link into that thread, which has a picture of someone's car right there in the bay getting its battery swapped. It was one of those quick-lube kind of oil change buildings that Tesla bought and converted so it would have the underground bay kind of area.

Harris Ranch is getting first battery swap station

 

[jjrandorin]

How in the WORLD did we get to page 2 on this thread without someone giving the link to the thread about the battery swap station that was actually in operation at Harris Ranch for about a year?! That thread is 29 pages long. This forum has short memories I guess. Here's a link into that thread, which has a picture of someone's car right there in the bay getting its battery swapped. It was one of those quick-lube kind of oil change buildings that Tesla bought and converted so it would have the underground bay kind of area.

Harris Ranch is getting first battery swap station

Is it still open, or what happened with it?

 

[Candleflame]

Let me clarify something. I have said more than once that I understand why Tesla canceled battery swaps; it is financially and technically unfeasible. I get that.

I also said that if it were technically and financially feasible, it would be a great marketing feature. Further, if it were technically and financially feasible, all the arguments presented here would be invalid, because they would already have been addressed.

not really. charging has become so easy and fast now battery swap sounds ancient and not that much faster. 5min doesnt include things like signing paperwork etc

 

[gaswalla]

Interestingly, Tesla just got a patent for a mobile battery swap device. Yes mobile

 

[Candleflame]

Interestingly, Tesla just got a patent for a mobile battery swap device. Yes mobile

if their rdne depwrtment comes up with something they will patent it so they can use it later i. e. on the model 3 4th gen or so. i. e. for emergencies.

 

[Rocky_H]

Is it still open, or what happened with it?

Didn't I just give you the link to the thread that was following along with it the whole time? If you skim the posts a couple of pages farther on, they say that it closed sometime around the middle of May 2016. It operated for about a year-ish.
Harris Ranch is getting first battery swap station

 

[jjrandorin]

Didn't I just give you the link to the thread that was following along with it the whole time? If you skim the posts a couple of pages farther on, they say that it closed sometime around the middle of May 2016. It operated for about a year-ish.
Harris Ranch is getting first battery swap station

Yeah you provided a link, but in the same statement said "its a 29 page thread", and I figured I would have to read through most of it to find the answer to that question, while it was likely you already knew the answer to the question, so I asked. I am all for reviewing forum threads, but looking through a 29 page thread to find an answer that it was likely you already had to a fairly simple question seemed excessive.

 

[Rocky_H]

Yeah you provided a link, but in the same statement said "its a 29 page thread", and I figured I would have to read through most of it to find the answer to that question, while it was likely you already knew the answer to the question, so I asked. I am all for reviewing forum threads, but looking through a 29 page thread to find an answer that it was likely you already had to a fairly simple question seemed excessive.

Huh. And yet you are one of the people who posts the RTFM responses when people ask simple questions too.

 

[jjrandorin]

Huh. And yet you are one of the people who posts the RTFM responses when people ask simple questions too.

Actually, I normally cut and past the portion of the manual where the answer can be found (page number, etc) and post the snippet that I am talking about as well, almost every time I say "its in the manual". Check and see.

EDIT:.. your super helpful around here so I am not trying to get into an argument with you over something simple. Sorry if I bothered you with the question.

 

[Rocky_H]

OK, sorry to get a bit ruffled on that. I linked to that post in page 25 showing people finally getting the swaps, so it obviously didn't require reading all of it just to find out when it ended. It was just skimming the next couple of pages to see when people stopped saying, "I got one today"

 

[jjrandorin]

OK, sorry to get a bit ruffled on that. I linked to that post in page 25 showing people finally getting the swaps, so it obviously didn't require reading all of it just to find out when it ended. It was just skimming the next couple of pages to see when people stopped saying, "I got one today"

Got it.. Yeah I didnt click the link. "Assumption" bites in the butt again, lol. Thanks for the follow up /e virtual handshake.

 

[Rocky_H]

Got it.. Yeah I didnt click the link. "Assumption" bites in the butt again, lol. Thanks for the follow up /e virtual handshake.

Yeah, salute to another 4,000+ poster.

 

[BlindPass]

It makes some sense if we keep progressing towards batteries being the real commodity.

Current battery “ownership” included in buying the car facilitates a misallocation of the most value and constrained aspect of EVs. In other words, a lot of unused battery capacity sits idle when we buy 400 mile ranged cars.

Battery leases allow Tesla owners to pay for range when they need it, and at the same time decoupling Tesla’s growth from simply how many X GWh batteries can they make. At a widespread level, this decreases the cells needed per car made. NIO does something similar imo.

There’s some incentive for Tesla to not sell us the million mile battery packs that can go 500+ miles.

Add in the monetization and utilization of FSD as a subscription, and Tesla not selling the car is possibly the future. We arguably don’t own it already, with not owning the software and most people financing or leasing.

People that buy a Model S Performance with FSD today will pay around $1500/month over 6 years if financed. That’s the current top of the line subscription- changing this to battery leasing/swap just lets me lower my monthly payment for the 90% of the time I only need 25% of that battery, giving Tesla “more” batteries in return.


Battery differentiation is starting to happen. China is getting batteries that suit their market better. Recycling is starting to occur. Swaps and lease/subscriptions seem plausible imo

 

[jjrandorin]

It makes some sense if we keep progressing towards batteries being the real commodity.

Current battery “ownership” included in buying the car facilitates a misallocation of the most value and constrained aspect of EVs. In other words, a lot of unused battery capacity sits idle when we buy 400 mile ranged cars.

Battery leases allow Tesla owners to pay for range when they need it, and at the same time decoupling Tesla’s growth from simply how many X GWh batteries can they make. At a widespread level, this decreases the cells needed per car made. NIO does something similar imo.

There’s some incentive for Tesla to not sell us the million mile battery packs that can go 500+ miles.

Add in the monetization and utilization of FSD as a subscription, and Tesla not selling the car is possibly the future. We arguably don’t own it already, with not owning the software and most people financing or leasing.

People that buy a Model S Performance with FSD today will pay around $1500/month over 6 years if financed. That’s the current top of the line subscription- changing this to battery leasing/swap just lets me lower my monthly payment for the 90% of the time I only need 25% of that battery, giving Tesla “more” batteries in return.


Battery differentiation is starting to happen. China is getting batteries that suit their market better. Recycling is starting to occur. Swaps and lease/subscriptions seem plausible imo

You are right, if no one owns the car and its "just a lease / subscription", no one would really care. That might be where the future is going (cars as a subscription as the primary method of people getting a car for home use), but its not a future I personally am interested in.

 

[BlindPass]

You are right, if no one owns the car and its "just a lease / subscription", no one would really care. That might be where the future is going (cars as a subscription as the primary method of people getting a car for home use), but its not a future I personally am interested in.

Aren’t we mostly already there, just inefficiently so?

I’ve leased, and with interest rates low, will likely finance my next car. Monthly payments for something I don’t own.

I pay subscription for data on the car. Subscription for music. Soon I’ll pay subscription for FSD and any other digital product on the car.

I don’t own the software on the car. In many cases I can’t make physical changes without voiding warranty. Soon your driving habits will determine your insurance costs.

We don’t own the car, we just own the downside that comes with usage (battery degradation, maintenance, etc). Paying cash for the spot price of your car is not more owning than leasing, you just have more risk. It’s all arbitrage, which in the case of a depreciating asset that has a lifespan, is generally about minimizing the costs over the duration of use.

Depending on your use profile, it may be better to pay all at once for more risk (once there are more metrics than miles in leases), but with batteries there’s utility for both sides to gain in reducing unused capacity.