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Battery Upgrade

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Olle, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. Olle

    Olle Member

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    Elon was talking about battery upgrade at the annual meeting

    Shareholder Meeting | Tesla at 37:20. In response to this question "are there plans to offer battery upgrades for older models to maintain their resale value"

    I find this very interesting. He says yes, but not from lightest to heaviest (unless you have air suspension?) and it will only be economical if battery is degraded, otherwise its cheaper to trade the car.

    What do you all think, when will it happen and how much would it cost?
     
  2. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    I value a 75Kwh battery at roughly $25,000. The reason being that Louisiana allows you a tax credit on 36% the cost of making a car alternative fuel, which i take to mean the battery. Tesla provides this number for tax rebate purposes at ~$8600.

    So with install, i'd imagine a battery replacement to be upwards $30k. Probably more economical to trade the car in indeed.
     
  3. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    Tesla charges 90 kWh owners $20 K to upgrade to a 100 kWh pack. I fail to see how this makes any financial sense whatsoever. Of course Tesla says that pack upgrades will be possible, but in reality they do everything they can to discourage it.
     
  4. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    Tesla has little interest in selling battery upgrades at a reasonable price. They want to sell cars not just batteries. They make much much more on selling a new car rather than selling just a battery which then means that person will definitely not buy a new Tesla any time soon. That's why they keep the replacement prices for batteries pretty high.
     
  5. Brando

    Brando Member

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    Seems 10 kWh for $20,000 profitable. (90 - 100 kWh)
    i.e. P100D doesn't have $100,000 in just the batteries
    People buy for performance, not value.
    Constant drag racing or ludicrous/insane starts no doubt causes more wear, right?
     
  6. Olle

    Olle Member

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    Depends at what stage in the car's life. Imagine if an 8 year old out of warranty, with failed battery Model S 60. worth say $5000 (in 2020) can get a battery upgrade for $10k. Perhaps a 75 battery with the new 2070 cells. Now somebody has a $15k Model S with really good range. A $15k car will not take away a sale from a new Model S ($70700 right now). But Tesla sold a battery and recycled an old one for raw material. Makes sense?
     
  7. wwu123

    wwu123 Member

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    I can't see these price points making sense:
    -first, many folks around here assert that a 8-year old used Tesla battery still has tens of thousands of dollars of value because it could be repurposed for other battery storage projects, or at the least be put into another used Tesla. An upgrade battery is a new battery, can't see it selling for less than used.
    -second, trying to carry over data points from the Toyota Prius, which has the largest and most mature history with HV battery market. I believe a new Prius HV battery could always be bought from Toyota parts, it was about $6000 not including installation, and that was a tiny battery compared to Tesla. The price of a new part doesn't vary on whether your car is a year old or 15 years old.

    Now Tesla is not Toyota nor like any other car company. Nonetheless I can't see them selling an upgrade for much less than a new battery, maybe a nominal $5-10K credit for your core swap (they'll just assume all are non-functional and need to be fully re-manufactured), so still in the $30K and upwards range.
     
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  8. Olle

    Olle Member

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    How can they assert an 8 year old Model S battery is worth tens of thousands, when the oldest one is 4 years and 10 months right now? Btw I have seen them for $17k, here is one for $19k Tesla 85kWh Battery for Sale
    I wasn't talking about an outright purchase for 10k, but a swap for a fairly moderate 75. In light of the current $20k swap for an extreme performance 100kWh doesn't seem to far out, no?
     
  9. AlfredoA

    AlfredoA Member

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    I have read threads about the battery upgrade information (only for P90DL kWh battery to P100DL kWh battery), But this is not true according to 4 SC that I tried. If I am wrong please steer me in the right direction. I would/am ready for the upgrade.
     
  10. Brando

    Brando Member

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    Larger cells? Might not be room. BUT 16850s will still be available from Panasonic and after 8 years just the chemistry improvements could well be 80%. Perhaps they will even be making 16850s in Sparks?? Tesla will do whatever makes sense.
     
  11. smilepak

    smilepak Active Member

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    Well I asked Tesla service and called their hotline

    At the moment luck is on the side those who bought one where software limit the size like 60 to 75. But other likemibe 70 cannot be software or hardware swap.

    If the batter degrades they only replace that specific cell
     
  12. Brando

    Brando Member

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    They can't replace a cell [18650]. A module, perhaps? I doubt even that as the tear downs of Model S battery pack [google youtube to see for yourself] requires near destruction of the pack just to open it up.
    How ever, once you do, the modules [near 70-80 cells] look OK. So I don't see anyone replacing even modules. re-purpose to power walls? It may well be these battery packs last 1 million miles. Depends a lot on use . I'd suspect if you kept in the 30-80% charge range they may never wear out.

    How many battery packs replaced so far in the Model S ? any? I can't find any.
     
  13. St Charles

    St Charles Member

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    A lot more than you realize. P90DL owners live in near constant fear of their pack needing replacement. Replacements are not nearly as powerful as the originals.
     
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  14. smilepak

    smilepak Active Member

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    I understand that Tesla is a small company is going through growing pain and maturing. They are also moving extremely fast given it is a technology car. The downside to that is it put owners in a disadvantage.

    Traditional Cars, they get redesign every 4 years and 6-8 years for luxury. In between the about 1/2 point are minor refreshes.

    Tesla on the other hand, minor refreshes occur every year or less. For example the initial launch of the 70D model and how short lived it was when they start releasing a revised 70D that happens to be upgradable via software. To those who purchase the initial 70D, we feel a bit short handed.

    The recent 60 model and then 75 to 85 to 90 to 100. These swap in between occurs every few months as they trying to be more streamline or consolidate their pricing pattern.
     
  15. Brando

    Brando Member

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    BS - IMHO. If living in constant fear, a simple solution, sell the P90DL.
    OR just lease them every 2 or 3 years. Give me a break.
     
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  16. smilepak

    smilepak Active Member

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    If you have extra time and money to waste, that would be an option. Leasing is not an option for some who drives a lot. I put 18k - 20k miles per year.

    Second, most people when buying a car, it is a long term investment to get the ROI on it. Especially when you pay for a car that is 100k. I plan to keep mine for at least 6-8 years.

    The minute you buy a vehicle and drive it off the lot, you lose immediate value on it that is not recoverable and it diminishes from there.

    So for those who have a fear and needing a replacement is the most viable option and cost effective w/o having to buy a car each time.

    Not to mention to minimize the waste to the landfill and other things.
     
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  17. jerjozwik

    jerjozwik Member

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    that does not apply to those of us who punched way above their pay grade to purchase a P90DL. if i were to sell my car i would loose a large amount of money. i bought my P90DL to keep for 10 years or more.
     
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  18. Brando

    Brando Member

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    I understand the strategy. I own 1989 Saab 900 SPG. 350,000 miles. Similar car in Wisconsin
    1989 Saab 900 SPG with 1 million-mile donated to a museum!
     
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  19. jerjozwik

    jerjozwik Member

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    @bxr140 really likes that disagree button.
     
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  20. bxr140

    bxr140 Member

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    As much as I dislike deflection of personal accountability...
     
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