Yes it is! And if you let someone drive a 2012 P95, so,done who has never driven a Tesla, it will blow them away! But if it is for sale they won't pay anything near what a new 70D costs. That's to be expected.
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Battling Model S depreciation by locking software updates?
- Thread starter krnshh
- Start date
JimmyAZ
Member
This is the exact reason I'm selling my current car for the S 85. I can't just let an Aston sit in my garage collecting dust. That thing was made to drive, so I drove it! Sure it cost me in resale value. But that was kind of a bucket list thing for me. I'll probably never own another exotic again, and I'm cool with that. But the one I had was driven as much as possible!
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
The idea is a total non-starter. This is just one of many reasons why this would never fly.
green1
Active Member
No, Teslas don't depreciate like iphones, an iphone is worthless after a few years, a Tesla isn't.
Teslas depreciate like cars, because guess what, they ARE cars! All cars, especially high end ones, depreciate rapidly. There is no reason anyone should ever expect that a Tesla won't depreciate like a car. Even Tesla agrees, their resale value guarantee is indexed to be very similar to other high end vehicles. If you can't handle depreciation, take the bus.
This proposal makes no sense to me either. People should buy the car to use it rather than trying to artificially maintain its value on the resale market. Combine high end car depreciation and rapidly changing tech product depreciation and the car will depreciate, but who cares if you bought it to drive it? Anyone who doesn't accept that probably should buy the car.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
One of the reasons so many people are surprised at the current depreciation is that for several years, the model S, showed very little depreciation.
The prices of the cars were steadily rising, and new option packages were released that made current models more expensive than those purchased before.
People were able to buy a new Model S, take the $10,000 tax deduction, and then resell the cars for about what they paid for this.
This, in addition to the increased fuel savings (gas was much more expensive then...and rising fast) allowed many early adopters to drive almost free for a few years.
Things have now changed, especially with the release of the very well equipped 70D. Many previously high priced options (sensors, turn by turn GPS, folding mirrors, free supercharging etc) are now standard.
Believe things are just getting back to normal, compared to other premium cars.
Same thing use to be with Ferrari and other exotics. You could order a new one, and immediately sell it for a huge profit...no more.
The prices of the cars were steadily rising, and new option packages were released that made current models more expensive than those purchased before.
People were able to buy a new Model S, take the $10,000 tax deduction, and then resell the cars for about what they paid for this.
This, in addition to the increased fuel savings (gas was much more expensive then...and rising fast) allowed many early adopters to drive almost free for a few years.
Things have now changed, especially with the release of the very well equipped 70D. Many previously high priced options (sensors, turn by turn GPS, folding mirrors, free supercharging etc) are now standard.
Believe things are just getting back to normal, compared to other premium cars.
Same thing use to be with Ferrari and other exotics. You could order a new one, and immediately sell it for a huge profit...no more.
digitaltim
Sig737 VIN628
Ditto. I just had a paint correction and Xpel full wrap applied to my 2012 Sig P85. While it may be lacking some features, it looks better than anything new coming off the line.
That said, I will gladly trade it in for a P110D. ;-)
With a luxury car like the Model S, its depreciation profile seems similar to any luxury car. But the issues with owning an older example seem to be much less worrisome than its ICE powers peers.
Maintaining a 5-6 year old BMW 7 or MB S class gets really scary, which depresses their pricing even more.
So I wonder if the biggest price blip for Model S will come as cars start dropping out of warranty and the true cost of maintenance begins to show.
Maintaining a 5-6 year old BMW 7 or MB S class gets really scary, which depresses their pricing even more.
So I wonder if the biggest price blip for Model S will come as cars start dropping out of warranty and the true cost of maintenance begins to show.
^ This
I fully intend to get shot of mine before the bumper to bumper warranty runs out. It is just a scary proposition otherwise. One replacement charger could wipe out an annual maintenance bill on an ICE.
Maybe in 4 years time when we see how the early cars do I might change my mind, but right now I wouldn't touch an out of warranty with someone else's 10' barge pole.
8 year unlimited mileage warranty is in many ways smoke and mirrors. Truth is it's a luxury car and it will likely have high maintenance costs on ancillaries (which often go wrong before the ICE).
green1
Active Member
As long as Tesla keeps enforcing that you have to have them do all repairs, and as long as there is no such thing as an aftermarket part, repair bills will be astronomical once warranty expires.
My hope is that the outcry from the first people running out of warranty will result in some changes before any car I buy gets to that point.
My hope is that the outcry from the first people running out of warranty will result in some changes before any car I buy gets to that point.
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green1
Active Member
I agree 100%, however every time something new gets released at Tesla we get a flood of people posting on here demanding exactly that.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
thegruf
Active Member
I seem to recall Elon evangelising the wider eco argument.
A major part of this is lieftime ownership cost.
A new owner who can afford $120K will likely be able to do so regularly and also is likely to always want the newest "iphone"
But somebody buying used at say $40K is looking for a great car, good value and honest running costs.
This is where Tesla can rewrite the rules (again).
As has been pointed out an S Class/ big BMW etc are huge risks to buy 5-6 years old. A vast amount of low volume model specific precision parts.
The Tesla electric motors can be refurbished cheaply (couple of bearings and shims and a rebalance?)
The main console is a bunch of e-modules - all repairable
Most everything else is automotive commodity stuff
and the bodywork is aluminium, no rust there.
Battery - again reprocessing already proposed so should be possible to expect a considerable trade in price for a battery due to the intrinsic value of the raw materials.
New battery= another 8 year life.
There is a real opportunity for Tesla to rip up the rip-off rule book and through (profitable) remanufacturing make these cars very cheaply maintainable for a very long time.
Does this harm sales?
Not in the slightest. Doesnt matter who you are, cost of ownership has to be a factor. Lowest TCO is just another great reason to buy new.
Actually it ticks off the ICE competition even more as they cannot support such a business model so they hurt.
A major part of this is lieftime ownership cost.
A new owner who can afford $120K will likely be able to do so regularly and also is likely to always want the newest "iphone"
But somebody buying used at say $40K is looking for a great car, good value and honest running costs.
This is where Tesla can rewrite the rules (again).
As has been pointed out an S Class/ big BMW etc are huge risks to buy 5-6 years old. A vast amount of low volume model specific precision parts.
The Tesla electric motors can be refurbished cheaply (couple of bearings and shims and a rebalance?)
The main console is a bunch of e-modules - all repairable
Most everything else is automotive commodity stuff
and the bodywork is aluminium, no rust there.
Battery - again reprocessing already proposed so should be possible to expect a considerable trade in price for a battery due to the intrinsic value of the raw materials.
New battery= another 8 year life.
There is a real opportunity for Tesla to rip up the rip-off rule book and through (profitable) remanufacturing make these cars very cheaply maintainable for a very long time.
Does this harm sales?
Not in the slightest. Doesnt matter who you are, cost of ownership has to be a factor. Lowest TCO is just another great reason to buy new.
Actually it ticks off the ICE competition even more as they cannot support such a business model so they hurt.
green1
Active Member
The theory behind this is good. However Tesla really needs to do something to address the astronomical costs of out of warranty repairs in the near future if they want to live up to that one.
MassX1317
Addicted to TMC
The comparison to an iphone just doesn't work.
iPhones are disposable after a few years, just like the phones before them and the phones before that.
People are using cars from the 90's as daily drivers. If Teslas are disposable after 3-4 years there is just no value in buying one. Maybe a small segment of buyers can throw away $100k every 4 years but most can not. If this is the road Tesla takes than the company won't last very long, neither will electric cars. It's tough for "disposable cars" to be sold to the masses.
Even though I love the car, haven't had any issues paying for it and don't want to drive anything else...knowing what I know now I would have never bought it. I just hate wasting money and feel like $40k spent and/or depreciated in one year isn't worth it. If someone offered me $25,000 less than I have into it I would sell it in a heart beat because I'm worried about how much more value it will lose when the new battery pack comes out. It's never going to happen so I will enjoy the car I purchased and try to keep it for 200k miles, hoping that it doesn't need any $175/hr repair work when the warranty runs out.
My year 1 expenses/expenditures:
$33,000 - Depreciation per Tesla trade in quote
$5,500 - Sales Tax
$1,150 - State Excise Tax
<$7,500> - Federal Tax Credit
$1,900 - Service Plan
$50 - Tire Repair Kit
$650 - Replacements for two flat tires
$1,600 - Electricty at home
$1,200 - Insurance
iPhones are disposable after a few years, just like the phones before them and the phones before that.
People are using cars from the 90's as daily drivers. If Teslas are disposable after 3-4 years there is just no value in buying one. Maybe a small segment of buyers can throw away $100k every 4 years but most can not. If this is the road Tesla takes than the company won't last very long, neither will electric cars. It's tough for "disposable cars" to be sold to the masses.
Even though I love the car, haven't had any issues paying for it and don't want to drive anything else...knowing what I know now I would have never bought it. I just hate wasting money and feel like $40k spent and/or depreciated in one year isn't worth it. If someone offered me $25,000 less than I have into it I would sell it in a heart beat because I'm worried about how much more value it will lose when the new battery pack comes out. It's never going to happen so I will enjoy the car I purchased and try to keep it for 200k miles, hoping that it doesn't need any $175/hr repair work when the warranty runs out.
My year 1 expenses/expenditures:
$33,000 - Depreciation per Tesla trade in quote
$5,500 - Sales Tax
$1,150 - State Excise Tax
<$7,500> - Federal Tax Credit
$1,900 - Service Plan
$50 - Tire Repair Kit
$650 - Replacements for two flat tires
$1,600 - Electricty at home
$1,200 - Insurance
cdub
OG 2011 Leaf / 2023 Model Y LR
There's nothing wrong with the Tesla after 3-4 years. It just doesn't have all the new fancy bells and whistles. It's still an amazing car. Your 3-4 year old Tesla didn't stop working because Tesla released something new.
All cars lose value the second you drive it off of the lot.
A car IS NOT AN INVESTMENT. It's a mode of transportation.
My 2011 Leaf is 4+ years old now. It works pretty much as good as new except the range has gone down some. But since my commute is 30 miles round trip that isn't a problem for me at all.
It's still a great car.
Do I drool at the thought of getting a Tesla now. Of course. But it doesn't make my car worthless or useless.
People complaining about depreciation is so silly. You still have a perfectly good car. There is NO REASON why it can't last you 10+ years.
If you're trading your car in that often you should lease not buy.
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