BBC: Scientists create battery that refuels electric cars in seconds

[tonybelding]

Found this → Could 'rust' hold key to electric travel?

The article makes no mention of any capability to recharge the liquid in the car, or at home. It seems to imply that the only way to "recharge" your car is to visit the filling station. If that is the case, then it seems like this scheme would have many of the same drawbacks as a hydrogen fuel cell car.

I have to admit, some of the text in the article is rather infuriating to me. Example:

Prof Cronin told BBC Radio's Good Morning Scotland programme: "This will overcome a big kind of cultural inertia - you can get instant refuel in the same way, with no change to your behaviour now.

Expecting people to change their habits to something more convenient and efficient? Heaven forbid!

Prof Cronin said: "If you are going to shift to electric cars, recharge time seems to be an almost unstoppable barrier because you are going to have to plan - even with a super-charger - a half-hour to 45-minute wait.

Unstoppable barrier! And that's why companies like Tesla have been unable to sell any of their impractical battery-powered cars, because nobody wants a car that comes with an UNSTOPPABLE BARRIER. Thank goodness those boffins in the UK have a solution coming.

"And then there's the anxiety of whether you have got enough charging stations.

uhh… Which side is he really arguing for now?

 

[Asymmetry]

Future is solid state, not liquid suspensions. Issue of contamination, degradation, all of which is already a none issue with batteries.

Another pie in the sky research grant application.

 

[Permag]

Gross, just gross. I see standing for 5 minutes in sub-freezing temperatures outside in freezing rain or sleet to put fuel in a car as an "unstoppable barrier" which are rediculous words put together in the first place.

 

[banned-66611]

Even if the battery could take it, what kind of power supply and cable could supply that much energy?

"Seconds" - let's be generous and say 60.

For the sake of argument we want to deliver 50kWh in 1 minute. That's 3000kW, assuming zero loss. That's two nuclear reactors to charge your car.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Even if the battery could take it, what kind of power supply and cable could supply that much energy?

"Seconds" - let's be generous and say 60.

For the sake of argument we want to deliver 50kWh in 1 minute. That's 3000kW, assuming zero loss. That's two nuclear reactors to charge your car.

You're off by 1000X.
3000kW = 3 megawatt. Two reactors would be 3 gigawatt.

 

[Johan]

You're off by 1000X.
3000kW = 3 megawatt. Two reactors would be 3 gigawatt.

So two million nuclear reactors you say?! That's just crazy!

 

[banned-66611]

Well spotted. It's too late to calculate, time for bed...

But still, good luck getting 3MW DC into your car. Unless someone invents a room temperature superconductor you might have trouble lifting the cable.

 

[csanders90D]

The 3MW is irrelevant because this battery doesn't charge by plugging in, instead you're swapping out the electrolyte. With a pump, not a plug.

So, instead of filling up at home every night, you can have the convenience of stopping by the gas station battery-electrolyte station every few days. No mention of the energy cost of making and distributing this stuff to the filling stations, just the silly claim: "Because it's a liquid it would just work as normal using the same infrastructure." Assuming that the owners of that gas station infrastructure feel like digging everything up to add a couple more tanks for the electrolyte, adding a couple more nozzles at each pump, arranging a supplier to deliver this stuff, etc. You'd have a much easier time getting the gas station owner to install a fast DC charger.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Over-egging, but a possible approach for edge cases.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Miscalculation aside, it seems to be impossible to transfer energy that quickly.
Pumping electrolyte sounds easy, but considering the incredibly high charge the electrolyte would have its hard to see how it could be done safely.
And to run a cable at 3MW, that’s 30X the supercharger speed, so you’d need 30X the supercharger câble capacity, not to mention the same increase on the cars internal wiring.

 

[Johan]

Miscalculation aside, it seems to be impossible to transfer energy that quickly.
Pumping electrolyte sounds easy, but considering the incredibly high charge the electrolyte would have its hard to see how it could be done safely.
And to run a cable at 3MW, that’s 30X the supercharger speed, so you’d need 30X the supercharger câble capacity, not to mention the same increase on the cars internal wiring.

That's not how batteries work

The electrolyte isn't some kind of magically charged fluid.

 

[Shock-On-T]

That's not how batteries work

The electrolyte isn't some kind of magically charged fluid.

Ah true, you're quite right.
What I was thinking was wrong, that the whole liquid was held at a high electrostatic charge. But it's sort of close, in that each individual molecule is charged and can donate an electron as it enters the battery.

At least you got me reading. Very interesting. It almost seems as though flow batteries are about to eclipse Li Ion batteries for stationery storage. That might free up some more gigafactory batteries for cars

 

[banned-66611]

Anything liquid based is a non-starter, just like hydrogen. No one wants to go back to that inconvenience unless they really have to.

 

[Shock-On-T]

Anything liquid based is a non-starter, just like hydrogen. No one wants to go back to that inconvenience unless they really have to.

Agreed. Even slow charging is far more convenient than needing to go to a shop to buy energy.
Supercharging is fine for road trips. The time you wait is more than offset by the time you save every week not needing to go to service stations.