Be honest: is SCing on a long trip annoying?

[wdolson]

Yeah, when I was a kid growing up I couldn't wait to get out of boring California and on to the scintillating excitement that is northern
Nevada!

Btw, my parents put seat belts in our cars before they were required by law. My brother became a paramedic and
you'd better believe that once he'd cleanup up what remains of a 9-year-old who's gone through a windshield at freeway speeds
he was militant about seat belt usage.

My father bought seat belts when they were an optional accessory. He also ordered his 1967 Chevy as a hard top with the beefier center pillar, but it was delivered with the standard top. The car looked a lot like the Impala (same model year) from the TV show Supernatural except white and with stock wheels.

Thinking about it now, it was weird he never required seatbelt usage for the backseat. He's always been hyper about safety. My parents moved to Morro Bay, CA when I was in college and he's always locked the door between the garage and house at night despite Morro Bay having one of the lowest crime rates of any incorporated city in the US. He's also always been paranoid about fire and eating right.

He used to drive on the shoulder on two lane highways to give more room between him and oncoming traffic. Usually drove around the speed limit and I think he actually liked the 55 mph speed limits of the 70s and 80s. Before leaving on a trip he'd always take the care in for full service and make sure the car would make it there and back. When I was a kid he never would stop for a traffic light under an overpass if he could help it just in case there was an earthquake and the thing fell down.

I think my father has PTSD from his time in the USAAF in World War II. His plane was never hit, but he's hinted he saw some horrors but he's rarely gone into details. He has a sensitive nature and I think it all ate at him.

He's not in Adrian Monk territory, but he does have moderate OCD. It has helped keep him safe since my mother died and he's been living alone, though he did have a fall a few months back and is in assisted living now. He may or may not be going home. He's in good shape for nearly 97, but he is nearly 97.

For short trips not at all. For long 1,000+ mile one way trips, yes.

First keep in mind that your route must include superchargers which may add a few extra hours of drive time. Second, stopping to charge for 40-50 minutes every 2 hours make it very hard to make decent time. For every 2 hours driving you spend 1 hour and some change pulling off finding a charger, letting it sit for 40-50 minutes then getting back on the road. Factor in the extra trip time and time of day. You may find that you may need to get a hotel for the night and continue driving the next day.

What size battery do you have and what kind of buffer do you charge to? I have a 90D and found the chargers are better spaced for a 60 or 70 than a larger battery in most places. On my one road trip to California thus far I found I had to make extra stops because most superchargers are too far apart to skip one, but too close together for a larger battery to go efficiently.

However with the larger battery it meant I could spend a shorter time charging at each stop. I played it conservatively and charged a bit more than needed, but many stops were only 15-20 minutes if the supercharger was working right. I got stuck longer at some California SpCs that were running slow. It would also mean about 10 minutes off the highway getting to and from the SpC in a lot of cases, but on a 600 mile leg I spent around 8 1/2 hours driving and about 2 - 2.5 charging or otherwise off the highway. Most of the wasted time charging was dealing with slow superchargers at Harris Ranch, Manteca, and a bit slow at Corning.

 

[RogerHScott]

10 minutes off the highway getting to and from the SpC in a lot of cases

I would hope that as the SpC network expands more of them are smaller and it is easier to locate those smaller ones closer to highways
and exits. You don't find gas stations being 5 minutes -- or even 2 minutes -- off of the highway.

 

[bxr140]

@Bargo, anyways, the point I was trying to make is that I'm sure there's a deserted location somewhere which will force you to drive for 2 hours and to stop for 1 hour of charging, but that's not the norm.

Classic S60 in nominal conditions is close to +50% drive time for an all day drive. A new S60 is probably only a little better.

A 90D is more like +20% drive time over the course of a day in nominal conditions.

 

[David99]

That's not how it's worked for me. Of course, if I'm going off the SC network (as I did last week on the Thunder Bay trip), then the last SC stop is much longer, but if I stay on the SC network a typical day looks like: Fill at night, two 10-20 minute stops, lunch, two 10-20 minute stops, night stop and fill. That gets 600-750 miles in a day. And if it's winter conditions it's obviously going to be longer. But when I arrive at an SC I often get the "you need ten minutes to have enough energy to continue on your trip".

You conveniently don't count lunch breaks and night stops. It's not entirely wrong as you take those stops anyways so you are not waiting for the car. But if you want to keep driving you have to account for the time. I did many 2000 miles road trips from LA to Minneapolis and back. It's usually 15-17 Supercharger stops. The average time I spend at a Supercharger is 42 min.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...so long as the SCs are near parks or playgrounds...

I wouldn't call my SpC experience "extensive" at this point, but thus far I can't recall a single SpC that fits this description. Most are in places that are, if anything, child unfriendly. My kids are past the playground stage, so not an issue personally, but I don't envy someone needing to have their small child cool their heels for 30-60 minute at most SpCs.

While I agree that most are in child unfriendly places, I will point out that the Supercharger Station at the Blanding UT Visitor's Center is in a park with a picnic table and playground. The one at Green River UT is at a museum with a lawn to run around on. Some of the ones at shopping malls have places inside for young children to play.

 

[wdolson]

I would hope that as the SpC network expands more of them are smaller and it is easier to locate those smaller ones closer to highways
and exits. You don't find gas stations being 5 minutes -- or even 2 minutes -- off of the highway.

Along I-5 between cities there are oases built up right at the exits with gas stations and fast food. Many of the gas stations are less than 1 minute from the freeway.

 

[aesculus]

Along I-5 between cities there are oases built up right at the exits with gas stations and fast food. Many of the gas stations are less than 1 minute from the freeway.

Oasis is right. I am old enough to remember when I5 opened up and there were NO gas stations on the route. Nobody would drive it. Those were the days.

 

[RogerHScott]

Along I-5 between cities there are oases built up right at the exits with gas stations and fast food. Many of the gas stations are less than 1 minute from the freeway.

Ummm... that was my point. Gas stations are typically very close, usually under a minute from the exit. Anything significantly less
convenient than that is unlikely to please the mass market.

 

[kort677]

Ummm... that was my point. Gas stations are typically very close, usually under a minute from the exit. Anything significantly less
convenient than that is unlikely to please the mass market.

we are a long ways away from charging stations are as plentiful as fuel stations are today. It is a process and one of the prices paid for being on the cutting edge of this dramatic change in how we propel our vehicles.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Gas stations are typically very close, usually under a minute from the exit. Anything significantly less
convenient than that is unlikely to please the mass market.

I would prefer that Superchargers are at sites suitable for some shopping and eating. We do have Highway service stations here in UK (and in Europe) where you don't actually come off at a highway-exit junction in order to get to them, and they usually have eating as well as Gas, but given the time to charge a BEV I wonder if coming off (provided it is nearby) is actually a better thing.

For highway service stations Tesla will have to provide stalls, separately, for both directions. If they provide just one site, just off the highway, all the stalls can be used by all the traffic - particularly relevant if at rush-hour / holiday season more of the traffic is travelling in one direction, rather than the other.

Right now we have some Superchargers in locations where there is pretty much no amenities at all - the early sites where Tesla just wanted a willing-landlord and quickest-planning-application. I sincerely hope that that will improve, going forwards.

 

[aesculus]

Ummm... that was my point. Gas stations are typically very close, usually under a minute from the exit. Anything significantly less
convenient than that is unlikely to please the mass market.

I see SCs falling into one of three categories:

• At service centers
• At destinations like shopping centers and hotels
• Along the highway for quick en route charging

Some may combine these features but I suspect one of the above dominated their placement.

On a recent trip where we were only going to charge for 20 minutes or so the only big requirement was to have a bathroom. For the longer charges it was nice to have a restaurant (or fast food) nearby. Of course those that are collocated with gas stations always have a convenience store attached (at least in North America) so you can get snacks and drinks.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Seems to me that the need for Food depends on the time of day, so a site without food becomes useless as a charge-whilst-eat during the main-meal times of the day, but of course is fine for loo-stop the rest of the time.

Thus better to choose sites which also have food facilities

 

[Owner]

Oasis is right. I am old enough to remember when I5 opened up and there were NO gas stations on the route. Nobody would drive it. Those were the days.

I remember driving down 99 as a kid - but there were relatives that a way.

When did I-5 open? I'm struggling to believe there were NO gas stations...

It has always been a boring drive where you had to watch how much gas you had in the tank as the "oases" were far apart -- but too far apart to use?

 

[aesculus]

I remember driving down 99 as a kid - but there were relatives that a way.

When did I-5 open? I'm struggling to believe there were NO gas stations...

It has always been a boring drive where you had to watch how much gas you had in the tank as the "oases" were far apart -- but too far apart to use?

From: Interstate 5 in California - Wikipedia

Construction began in the early 1960s. There were just three phases for the 321 miles (517 km). The first phase, completed in 1967, ran from the San Joaquin County line to Los Banos. The second phase, completed in 1972, extended the freeway south to Wheeler Ridge and connected it to SR 99. The freeway then started to see traffic, as in Stockton there were only 4 miles (6.4 km) between the West Side Freeway and the Golden State Highway. The third phase, completed in 1979, extended the freeway to Sacramento and connected it to the northern I-5.[26]

When the second phase of the freeway opened in 1972, it was a long and lonely route with no businesses alongside. Services were not easily available as the nearest towns were miles away and generally out of sight. It was common for cars to run out of fuel.[27] Over time the West Side Freeway (I-5) saw the development of businesses serving the needs of travelers. For years, there has still been interest in designating the Golden State Highway route as its own interstate, Interstate 9.

 

[Max*]

Classic S60 in nominal conditions is close to +50% drive time for an all day drive. A new S60 is probably only a little better.

A 90D is more like +20% drive time over the course of a day in nominal conditions.

So I thought maybe it's something unique to the S60. I went to trip planner, and planned a supercharged route from San Francisco, CA to NY, NY.
Drive time: 47:45
Charge time: 17:26
So a little over a third(~36%). No where near 50%.
EV Trip Planner

If I do the same for a 90D
Drive time: 47:45
Charge time: 10:50
So you were right here, about 20%

So I still don't agree with the 2-to-1 ratio that you and the other poster were talking about. Even on an S60. I could believe a 3-to-1 on an S60, and incrementally increasing to 5-to-1 as the battery gets bigger.

 

[TexasEV]

Those charging times are higher than in real life, because they're calculated as if you're driving straight through and all charging is done at superchargers. In real life most people stop each night at a hotel. If the hotel has level 2 charging (which is how we try to plan our trips) you start each day with a full charge, and even if you can only plug into 120V it lessens the time needed at the first supercharger stop that day.

 

[RogerHScott]

So I thought maybe it's something unique to the S60. I went to trip planner, and planned a supercharged route from San Francisco, CA to NY, NY.
Drive time: 47:45
Charge time: 17:26
So a little over a third(~36%). No where near 50%.
EV Trip Planner

If I do the same for a 90D
Drive time: 47:45
Charge time: 10:50
So you were right here, about 20%

So I still don't agree with the 2-to-1 ratio that you and the other poster were talking about. Even on an S60. I could believe a 3-to-1 on an S60, and incrementally increasing to 5-to-1 as the battery gets bigger.

Is the trip planner calling for stopping at all of the same SpCs either way? That doesn't seem realistic -- in a 90 you could certainly skip
some that would be necessary in the 60. Does "Charge time" include the time to get to and from the charger, or is that still counted in
"Drive time"?

 

[Max*]

Is the trip planner calling for stopping at all of the same SpCs either way? That doesn't seem realistic -- in a 90 you could certainly skip
some that would be necessary in the 60.

Good point regarding stopping at the same chargers, I just changed the car without having it redo the trip.

If I redo the the whole trip for the 90D, EV Trip Planner gives me some funky results (1 hour shorter drive time, 30 minute longer charge time?)
Drive time: 46:42
Charge time: 11:22
Total Trip Time 58:04
EV Trip Planner

And using the exact same Supercharger stops as the 60kwh example, the total trip time for the 90D would've been:
Total Trip Time 58:35

I'd say roughly the same?

Does "Charge time" include the time to get to and from the charger, or is that still counted in "Drive time"?

I don't know, I pulled the numbers out of EV trip planner. I would imaging getting to/from the chargers would be part of drive time. Though I haven't dove that deep into it.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Oasis is right. I am old enough to remember when I5 opened up and there were NO gas stations on the route. Nobody would drive it. Those were the days.

I remember that time as well. Avoiding 99 and taking the new I-5 through Central Valley required planning gas stops because there were so few options to fill up (sound familiar to Tesla drivers?). Driving I-5 was also really, really, really boring! (Perhaps it still is — haven't been on it in more than three decades.) The advantage was the 70 mph speed limit, which was rare at the time.

 

[kort677]

I see SCs falling into one of three categories:

• At service centers
• At destinations like shopping centers and hotels
• Along the highway for quick en route charging

Some may combine these features but I suspect one of the above dominated their placement.

On a recent trip where we were only going to charge for 20 minutes or so the only big requirement was to have a bathroom. For the longer charges it was nice to have a restaurant (or fast food) nearby. Of course those that are collocated with gas stations always have a convenience store attached (at least in North America) so you can get snacks and drinks.

SpCs at service centers are rare here on the east coast, I can only think of two that I've been to. the SpCs are almost always placed at either 2nd tier shopping centers or by hotels and they are usually fairly close to interstate route, of course there will be exceptions but those are the outliers.