BeastMode13's Dual Purpose P3D Build Journey

[beastmode13]

I have the curse of being an enthusiast that can't just leave things alone. Perhaps a few of you out there can relate to this. After starting several threads on installations and track performance related FYI, I find myself going back to those threads time and time again when I'm working on my car. After all, I am an enthusiast with limited amount of time to work on the car, with a bunch of other stuff in my life that consumes my most precious resource, time. No, I don't have torque specs or sequence of installation memorized. Case in point, a few days ago, I DM'd a fellow TMC member asking about how he torque the front endlink to the ridiculous high Tesla spec. The answer is, Tesla specs for endlink is unnecessarily high. This is something that I documented in one of my suspension thread. So you see, for nothing else but selfish reasons, I am starting this new thread as the master repository to document my Dual Purpose Build Journey.

Please be warned. You will be disappointed if you are reading this for the ultimate answer in building the perfect street and track Tesla Model 3. It is not 42. What you will gain from reading this thread is insights into how I think about products and installation. Thanks to many other TMC members that shared their knowledge with me so far.

Let's start with links to some old posts.

P3 rear caliper piston retraction (I was a noob) - P3 red caliper rear pad replacement
P3 Brake Job - Caliper replacement, pad replacement, rear caliper rebuild (still a noob) - P3 Brake Job
Brake Pad Comparison - Racing Brake XT910 vs XT970
MPP AWD Coilover Installation - MPP AWD/Performance Coilover Impression and Installation
Sway bar, Endlinks, Control Arms. Oh My! - Sway Bars, End Links, and Rear Control Arms Installation & Impression

 

[beastmode13]

Fundamental to a dual-purpose car is daily driver livability with capability for track duty. Brake pad and tire are two items that have the toughest, and perhaps the impossible tasks to deliver results on both environments. Long before I had the P3D, I have given up on the dream of one dual-purpose tire. However, the dream of one brake pad rules them all is strong and well.

To date, I have tried four different pads with my RB460 front caliper, RB XT910, RB XT970, Porterfield R4, and Endless EX90. For the rear stock P3D caliper, I have tried, RB XT910, RB970, and Endless EX90.

I have tracked my P3D seven times so far with a variety of pads. Matching f/r when not noted.
2 x Laguna Seca - RB XT910 (this pad was done, melted away after two track days)
1 x Laguna Seca - RB XT970
1 x Laguna Seca - Porterfield R4 front, RB XT970 rear.
2 x Buttonwillow - RB XT970
1 x Laguna Seca - Endless EX90 (EX90 is tweaked MX72 for Tesla) - ENDLESS OFFICIAL WEB SITE

My front rotors are 380x32mm new, after 7 track days and 15,000 miles, the thickness is at 31.74mm.

Here is a photo of all four types of pads I tried. All the pads are the actual pads that have seen track duty, except XT910. XT910 pad in the photo is a street duty only.

XT910, EX90, XT970, R4


XT910 & EX90


XT970 & R4


EX90 & XT970


For me, none of these pads hit the bullseye for the title of the ultimate dual-purpose street-track pad. One is close.

XT910 - this is a street pad. There is even a warning on the seller's website stating this is a street only pad. XT910, for me, is the only pad that did not develop an uneven rotor deposit after track sessions. It melted away, so there was nothing let to deposit.

XT970 - this is a street/track pad. Several TMC members have success with this pad at the track, without the uneven rotor deposit. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them. This pad has a progressive Mu level; its grip increases as the temperature rises. It is not the linear behavior that I'm accustomed to, so I over braking with this pad. This pad is quiet when there is a nice layer of pad material on the rotor. But it wears quickly in street driving, three months of street driving ate away more pad material when two track days. When there is no pad material on the rotor, it squeals low speed and gentle stops.

R4 - This is a full track duty pad. As you would expect, it squeals when there is no pad material on the rotor. The pad had a slight progressive Mu; the grip increases as temp raises, the ultimate grip is similar to XT970. The uneven deposit happened much earlier than XT970. This pad also loves rotor for lunch. After one track day, there is minor but visually noticeable grooving on the rotor. Seeing that stopped any interest I had with this pad.

EX90 - This pad is the closest to what I'm looking for. The Mu level is very linear, from street temp to full hot lapping temp. The ultimate grip is slightly lower than XT970, but it is more readily available for me to use regardless of the rotor/pad temp. The pad is quiet on the street, regardless of the material layer. Only time I hear squeals is on the first day after the pad went on. The only issue I experience with this pad is the uneven rotor deposit. I have since communicated with Endless rep, they are making a set of EX99 for me. EX99 is a tweak version of CC-Rg if you are curious.

 

[Mash]

That's good that you going to keep your build journal in one place. Do you consider to change to the new rear rotors with Model S rear calipers that RB is releasing in March?

 

[beastmode13]

That's good that you going to keep your build journal in one place. Do you consider to change to the new rear rotors with Model S rear calipers that RB is releasing in March?

I have a pair of Model S non-P caliper in my garage just for that purpose. However, I’m on the fence about it once I did more research. The big gain for the RB S caliper option is the increase thermal capacity of the larger and thicker rotor. On the other hand, the P3D pad is slightly larger than S pad. And there are already a number of track oriented pad on the market for P3D. Whereas the S pad is available in street pad only, the only other car that uses the same pad shape is Chevy Cruise econobox.

 

[jkoya]

Nice read - Thanks for sharing !

 

[beastmode13]

Nice read - Thanks for sharing !

Thanks for reading.

 

[beastmode13]

Just in case anyone want to research pad availability for non-P Model S caliper. The pad is FMSI D1929.

 

[beastmode13]

Loosing weight is one of the few new year's resolution that I am keeping up so far. Thanks @MountainPass for the help. Lots of blue bits in future installation posts.

I am still waiting on the springs.

 

[Orwell]

Those rear suspension cups save so much weight. The want is strong!

Thanks for documenting your experiences and sharing.

 

[Mash]

I have a pair of Model S non-P caliper in my garage just for that purpose. However, I’m on the fence about it once I did more research. The big gain for the RB S caliper option is the increase thermal capacity of the larger and thicker rotor. On the other hand, the P3D pad is slightly larger than S pad. And there are already a number of track oriented pad on the market for P3D. Whereas the S pad is available in street pad only, the only other car that uses the same pad shape is Chevy Cruise econobox.

I'm waiting for 2530-K (390x32mm) front calipers with 6 pistons from RB. Those are MFSI D1666 based (mostly 2013 GT500 Ford Mustang)
And you are right, 2633-K (365x28mm) are designed for FMSI D1929 pads which I see only stock Model S pads for street and XT970 (PD1929-397) for the track duty.

I believe we will have a hard time getting any other racing calipers at the back since we need e-brake embedded. And with low weight transfer of Model 3 (especially with lower clearance and harder springs) we should get a lot of demand for heat resistance and dissipation at the rear side. And this is where your first-hand knowledge is invaluable.

 

[MasterC17]

Anyone know how much the RB Rear MS BBK Rotors weigh? The only brake fade I have experienced has been from the front axle. The rear was fine with the stock performance rotors and as good or better with the MPP rotors. I wouldn't want to add much weight back there for little to no benefit. I still have the XT970's on the rear axle, and with 6 track days they are showing maybe ~40% wear. I am assuming the replacement Carbotech RP2's I have will last even longer.

As far as the front axle is concerned, I never had fade with the Model S Calipers & Rotors with either Hawk DTC-70's or the Raybestos ST47's. The Hawk's wore extremely quickly though, whereas the ST47's wore very well. Unfortunately, the MS Rotors are 28lbs each, so I was adding almost 20lbs to the front end and the rotors were shot after 1 year. That's why I went back to the stock calipers with MPP Rotors and Carbotech RP2 pads. The pads are wearing as good as the ST47's, but I did have a little bit of fade. I imagine this is a result of the much thinner rotors.

That being said, on the front axle I think any of RB's 32mm thick rotors should get the job done, but I'm not sure it is worth upgrading the rear.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Anyone know how much the RB Rear MS BBK Rotors weigh? .

7.4Kg. 1Kg more trhan stock rotor.

 

[Msjulie]

We always used these on the track: Porterfield R4

Thanks for the research there

 

[beastmode13]

Anyone know how much the RB Rear MS BBK Rotors weigh? The only brake fade I have experienced has been from the front axle. The rear was fine with the stock performance rotors and as good or better with the MPP rotors. I wouldn't want to add much weight back there for little to no benefit. I still have the XT970's on the rear axle, and with 6 track days they are showing maybe ~40% wear. I am assuming the replacement Carbotech RP2's I have will last even longer.

As far as the front axle is concerned, I never had fade with the Model S Calipers & Rotors with either Hawk DTC-70's or the Raybestos ST47's. The Hawk's wore extremely quickly though, whereas the ST47's wore very well. Unfortunately, the MS Rotors are 28lbs each, so I was adding almost 20lbs to the front end and the rotors were shot after 1 year. That's why I went back to the stock calipers with MPP Rotors and Carbotech RP2 pads. The pads are wearing as good as the ST47's, but I did have a little bit of fade. I imagine this is a result of the much thinner rotors.

That being said, on the front axle I think any of RB's 32mm thick rotors should get the job done, but I'm not sure it is worth upgrading the rear.

I believe your front cooling ducts improve the thermal management significantly.

 

[MasterC17]

I believe your front cooling ducts improve the thermal manage significantly.

I intended to test that theory out this weekend and just failed to lol. Next time I am really going to try and see what the difference is with blocked and open ducts to see if and how much they are helping.

 

[ElectroFish]

So what pad would you recommend for street with maybe 1-5 track days a year?

 

[beastmode13]

So what pad would you recommend for street with maybe 1-5 track days a year?

Good question. Of the four pads I tried, RB XT970 and Endless EX90 are worth considering for dual purpose street and track.

 

[ElectroFish]

Thanks for the quick reply. Where are you purchasing these From? I wonder what the new Tesla track pad is .

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I wonder what the new Tesla track pad is .

We're all wondering that...
Brembo have a new performance pad due out soon, so the timing is right but it's not supposed to be a proper track pad like the XT970.

 

[MasterC17]

This is just my personal experience, but given the current options I would recommend checking out Carbotech. They have several compounds available depending on what you are looking for and they are priced very reasonably. Get in touch with Martian Wheels if you are interested.

I am fairly confident the pads from Tesla will be overpriced and underwhelming. Back when there were no other options available, I had to buy another set of stock performance pads for the rear and they were $300. They lasted 3 days.

And if you are concerned about NVH, don't be. I've run Hawk DTC-70's, Raybestos ST-47, RB XT-970, and Carbotech RP2. None have ever squeaked, squealed, or otherwise been annoying. Thank you regenerative braking!