Beef; I'll miss you most of all....

[mspohr]

More to the point, electricity is the fuel to reduce CO2 into building blocks for carbs (CHO), fats (CH2) and protein (reduced nitrogen and carbon.)

The idea is not so much different than electrolysis of water into oxygen and hydrogen molecules so the important question becomes the efficiency of the bacteria.

In reading the articles, it appears that they use the electricity to make H2 and they have bacteria which use the H2, combine it with atmospheric CO2 to get fats and carbs. They add nitrogen as a feedstock to make proteins. (This could be done with soybean bacteria.)

"They use electricity from solar panels to electrolyse water, producing hydrogen, which feeds bacteria that turn it back into water. Unlike other forms of microbial protein (such as Quorn), it requires no carbohydrate feedstock – in other words, no plants."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969718325749

 

[mspohr]

Very reasonable.

We have meat in our house too. The cats are rather demanding in that way. However, now that I know about LDS from the above post I'll ask them if they want to convert. Dried cockroach doesn't sound so bad, right ?

Feeding Cats A Vegan Diet Could Potentially Break The Law

 

[mspohr]

How your dog could go vegan and still stay healthy

How your dog could go vegan and still stay healthy
Though we think of them as carnivores, dogs' nutritional needs can be met in other ways.

 

[ohmman]

An unpopular thing to bring up, but since you've mentioned it a couple of times - pets contribute nontrivially to GHG emissions. Alternative diets would be helpful, in lieu of going without a pet.

The environmental footprint of your pet is bigger than you think

 

[mspohr]

A new report highlights the damage of beef and current diet

Beef-eating 'must fall drastically' as world population grows
Beef-eating 'must fall drastically' as world population grows
The new report, launched at the UN climate summit in Katowice, Poland, follows other major scientific analyses showing that huge reductions in meat-eating are “essential” to avoid dangerous climate change. Another found that avoiding meat and dairy products was the single biggest way to reduce an individual’s environmental impact on the planet, from slowing the annihilation of wildlife to healing dead zones in the oceans.

The world’s science academies concluded last week that the global food system was “broken”, leaving billions of people either underfed or overweight and driving dangerous global warming. Another new report concluded that the global food system required “radical transformation” if climate change and development goals were to be met, including “widespread dietary change”.

 

[mspohr]

Caroline Lucas urges parliament to 'seriously consider' tax on meat
Caroline Lucas urges parliament to 'seriously consider' tax on meat

“If the world’s diet doesn’t change, we simply can’t avoid the worst effects of climate change,” Lucas will say, in a stark warning timed to coincide with the push for people to adopt a vegan diet for a month, the “Veganuary” movement.

 

[mspohr]

Protein mania: the rich world’s new diet obsession
Protein mania: the rich world’s new diet obsession

We already get too much protein leading to kidney, liver and skeletal problems. Why do we crave more? It could be because we eat too many unhealthy fats and refined starches.
( Also, the dairy industry has a surplus of waste whey which the push to sell as protein supplement.)

 

[nwdiver]

Not cheap... but maybe if you've got some extra $$$ and a BBQ coming up... see if anyone notices that they're not eating cow flesh

Impossible Burger Bricks

 

[mspohr]

Not cheap... but maybe if you've got some extra $$$ and a BBQ coming up... see if anyone notices that they're not eating cow flesh

Impossible Burger Bricks

I was at a restaurant and they had spaghetti and "meat" balls made from Impossible "meat". They were very good.

 

[nwdiver]

Not that we needed another reason...

 

[mspohr]

Not that we needed another reason...

Unfortunately, cattle do a lot of environmental damage.

 

[mspohr]

What the 'meat paradox' reveals about moral decision making

Interesting article about meat and cognitive dissonance.

 

[ohmman]

What the 'meat paradox' reveals about moral decision making

Interesting article about meat and cognitive dissonance.

This reminded me of "The Undoing Project" by Michael Lewis, about Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky. I've previously read "Thinking: Fast and Slow" by Kahneman and am probably due a re-read soon. They talk quite a bit about these mental tricks we play to ensure our world makes sense the way we want it to. Both are good reading. The Lewis book is more biographical but sheds some light on the biases, and Kahneman's book is much more meaty. I think Kahneman's book should be required reading for all adults to help remind us of the ways we fool ourselves.

 

[Skotty]

What the 'meat paradox' reveals about moral decision making

Interesting article about meat and cognitive dissonance.

There isn't much choice when you go to the store on which meat you get. There isn't one labeled with a non-cruelty label, or some index to indicate how good the care for the animals was. Regulations could help, but you could end up in that scenario where meat would potentially get expensive so where it is only for the rich, which is a new kind of problem if we could even get to that point.

I don't find any conflict related to wanting animals to be handled in a humane way and eating beef. You can argue about where to draw the line on how intelligent a creature has to be before you shouldn't use it as a product anymore, but without any conflict, you can still agree not to cause extraordinary levels of harm to things that live. When I see a spider in my house, I don't torment it, chop off its legs, and let it starve to death. I kill it quick. And I don't go outside to kill spiders just for sport or because I don't like them...I only kill them when they have invaded my house. I think that's fair. Likewise, I think it's fair that cattle are used as food products but expect that they should still handled with respect and care up until they are killed.

Of course, there is concern for how much the cattle industry contributes to climate change. I think this is a legitimate question that may require some action, despite not immediately jumping on the we should all be vegetarians bandwagon.

 

[ohmman]

There isn't much choice when you go to the store on which meat you get. There isn't one labeled with a non-cruelty label, or some index to indicate how good the care for the animals was.

Whole Foods has a labeling program where they try to rank the "humane" level of their meats. I believe it is well intentioned and they are using their best efforts, but I'm skeptical of their ability to provide enough oversight to actually make their ratings mean anything.

The article was pointing out that people care, but not enough to change their habit. That's the cognitive dissonance. For me, it's just because purchase and consumption is fully separated from reality. If we all had to go to the packing plant to pick up our freshly slaughtered meat, walking pass the kill floor and the sorting tables, I bet we'd be closing in on widespread vegetarianism fast. Heck, I've got friends that won't cook bone in chicken because it's too "real" for them. The more we can psychologically deceive ourselves into thinking it's not the carcass of a previously living animal, the easier it is to consume without thought. Generally speaking, of course. I recognize there are plenty of people who raise their own meat or hunt as well.

 

[mspohr]

There isn't much choice when you go to the store on which meat you get.
.

You do have the choice to not buy meat.
The climate damage of meat is real. Another reason to not buy meat.
It is a personal ethical choice. The article points out the ways we deceive ourselves about ethically uncomfortable choices.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...When I see a spider in my house, I don't torment it, chop off its legs, and let it starve to death. I kill it quick. And I don't go outside to kill spiders just for sport or because I don't like them...I only kill them when they have invaded my house. I think that's fair...

I capture the spider by placing a glass over it and sliding a piece of paper (junk mail cards work well) under it and toss the spider out the nearest window or door. I've been doing this for decades, so it is routine and quite easy. I live in a forest so spiders are common, and welcome -- outside!

 

[mspohr]

And another reason to give up meat

Cooking Sunday roast causes indoor pollution ‘worse than Delhi’
Cooking Sunday roast causes indoor pollution ‘worse than Delhi’

 

[mspohr]

Is Cheese Worse for the Planet Than Beef?

Looks like all animal products are bad for the environment.
Interesting that lamb tops the list.

 

[ohmman]

Is Cheese Worse for the Planet Than Beef?

Looks like all animal products are bad for the environment.
Interesting that lamb tops the list.

Original report here. Sources start on page 21. Sources and methodology look reasonable.

Surprising to me that eggs account for only about 30% less GHG emissions than whole chicken. Milk is significantly lower than I expected, as is yogurt. I eat yogurt with fruit for breakfast and harbor a bit of guilt about it, but it looks like it's significantly better than eggs. I also make my own yogurt out of milk, so potentially it's better than having to go through a distribution chain.

I'm curious how the GHG emissions look from non-factory eggs (that is, when I get them from my friends).