Belief and the Model X

[ckessel]

I'm insane remember?

That's been blown way out of proportion, let's take a deep breath. I also think it's crazy to believe in God, yet one of my very best friends is devoutly religious and we manage to work around those sorts of things. Such differences don't have to be composed of bitter bile.

 

[AnOutsider]

Outsider, take a deep breath man. That's been blown way out of proportion. I also think it's crazy to believe in God, yet one of my very best friends is devoutly religious and we manage to work around those sorts of things. Such differences don't have to be composed of bitter bile.

No breath needed, I'm not in the least worked up about it -- it's like a running joke. Don't we all have to be a little crazy compared to the average joe to plunk down large amounts of cash on something most of the world thought was the automotive equivalent of a unicorn? As someone else said, at this point, we're just down to varying degrees of insanity. Now please pass my pills.

 

[vfx]

I have a brilliant good friend who believes the world is 6000 years old.

 

[Norbert]

That's been blown way out of proportion, let's take a deep breath. I also think it's crazy to believe in God, yet one of my very best friends is devoutly religious and we manage to work around those sorts of things. Such differences don't have to be composed of bitter bile.

I thought you didn't want a religious discussion, now you are the only one actually making an (anti-)religious statement...

 

[NigelM]

I also think it's crazy to believe in God.....

Interesting dichotomy, buying a car without a test drive is too risky but you're prepared to risk eternity by ruling out the possibility that God exists.

 

[medved]

Interesting dichotomy, buying a car without a test drive is too risky but you're prepared to risk eternity by ruling out the possibility that God exists.

good one +1

 

[bonnie]

Interesting dichotomy, buying a car without a test drive is too risky but you're prepared to risk eternity by ruling out the possibility that God exists.

Awesome.

 

[ckessel]

Interesting dichotomy, buying a car without a test drive is too risky but you're prepared to risk eternity by ruling out the possibility that God exists.

That was completely and utterly uncalled for and even more disgusting others are encouraging it.

Doug, this goes way beyond the bounds of acceptable.

 

[bonnie]

That was completely and utterly uncalled for and even more disgusting others are encouraging it.

Doug, this goes way beyond the bounds of acceptable.

Wow! Lighten up. You called people insane for not requiring a test drive, you also say you think it's crazy to believe in God ... and you're offended when your own words are put together? And what exactly do you want Doug to do here? Tell you to quit calling people insane and crazy?

-smh-

 

[ckessel]

Wow! Lighten up. You called people insane for not requiring a test drive, you also say you think it's crazy to believe in God ... and you're offended when your own words are put together? And what exactly do you want Doug to do here? Tell you to quit calling people insane and crazy?

-smh-

My post was about working around differences in beliefs. Nigel's, and your support, are insulting comments about belief systems.

As for the "crazy" posts, I left those posts to die because they deserved no more attention. I even recanted at one point saying "I was more intending to emphasize my disbelief that people are comfortable buying without a test drive rather than intending to call you (or anyone) out specifically." If you'd like an outright admission of error rather than that clarification, then I'll give you that. I was wrong in my statement about anyone's rationale for purchasing without a test drive.

I also tried to defuse Outsider's last comment about it and it seems things were finished.

Nigel brings it back with a dark twist and you egg him on. Really, this is where you want to go on this forum? Down the road of religious arguments furthering our divisions? It's your choice, because I'll let it die and not post again on it, but I'm not going to stand by if someone drudges up a post to attack me.

Your call. Where do you want this to go?

Edit: I'm rather sad, you were one of the posters I had liked and respected, that had brought a level better than this to the forums.

 

[bonnie]

My post was about working around differences in beliefs. Nigel's, and your support, are insulting comments about belief systems. And it was a dead issue, bunches of posts back now. I left those posts to die because they deserved no more attention. I tried to defuse Outsider's last comment about it and it seems things were finished.

You want to go down this route for this board? Really?

You want to spend your entire life defined by something you can't know? Define your entire behavior by it? Oh, and which God do you want? Christian? Or do you want to go old school, maybe Zeus? Or maybe the various gods of the Indian relations? Or maybe go natural, native american gods? You pray every day to the supernatural of your choice in hopes it's there and you're guessing correctly what it wants?

I try to simply do what seems right each day rather than from threat of some diety. I don't always succeed obviously, but I'm content inside that my motivations and desire to be a good person are my own.

Really, this is where you want to go on this forum? Furthering our divisions? It's your choice, because I'll let it die and not post again on it. But I'm not going to stand by if someone drudges up a post to attack me.

Your call. Where do you want this to go?

Edit: I'm rather sad, you were one of the posters I had liked and respected, that had brought a level better than this to the forums.

(My spiritual beliefs are not derived from fear of retribution. Just an fyi.) Furthering our divisions" was something brought about by calling people insane and crazy. You feel Nigel (with my support) insulted your belief system, yet you called those who believe in God 'crazy'. Not sure where the double-standard is coming from on this. Your reaction didn't seem in line with what was said, so I am surprised. And you're right, this is off-topic. so I'm done.

 

[AnOutsider]

My post was about working around differences in beliefs. Nigel's, and your support, are insulting comments about belief systems. And it was a dead issue, bunches of posts back now. I left those posts to die because they deserved no more attention. I tried to defuse Outsider's last comment about it and it seems things were finished.

Really, this is where you want to go on this forum? Down the road of religious arguments furthering our divisions? It's your choice, because I'll let it die and not post again on it, but I'm not going to stand by if someone drudges up a post to attack me.

Your call. Where do you want this to go?

Edit: I'm rather sad, you were one of the posters I had liked and respected, that had brought a level better than this to the forums.

No offense man, but this blow up just took the issue to a whole 'not her level. This is more something for Doug to step in on than any previous posts. Lighten up man.

Back on topic, I just wanted to pitch in with my view. I liked the X for its stated purpose. I love the new dash design. However, I think the DRLs on the Model S look much better than on the X. The cat-eye DRLs on the S are very distinct and are going to stand out everywhere. People will see them and know instantly that it's a Tesla Model S, if they know what it is. If they don't, it's going to make them very curious. In contrast, the X DRLs look like the Xs eyes have bags under them. :scared:

As mentioned elsewhere, I hope they follow Audi's lead and have distinctive "eyes" for each model in the lineup

 

[ckessel]

(My spiritual beliefs are not derived from fear of retribution. Just an fyi.) Furthering our divisions" was something brought about by calling people insane and crazy. You feel Nigel (with my support) insulted your belief system, yet you called those who believe in God 'crazy'. Not sure where the double-standard is coming from on this. Your reaction didn't seem in line with what was said, so I am surprised. And you're right, this is off-topic. so I'm done.

My comment was specifically about working through differences. My statement had this: yet one of my very best friends is devoutly religious and we manage to work around those sorts of things. I think his belief in God is crazy, yes, he knows this. I suspect he thinks I'm crazy not to believe, but the point is that we work around it rather than focus on it.

Nigel took a dedicated moment to take a focused jab (and you encouraged), completely counter to my example of friendship that avoids that behavior.

As for the "crazy without a test drive" posts, I edited this admission of fault above probably after you read the original, so I'll repost it:

I left those posts to die because they deserved no more attention. I even recanted at one point saying "I was more intending to emphasize my disbelief that people are comfortable buying without a test drive rather than intending to call you (or anyone) out specifically." If you'd like an outright admission of error rather than that clarification, then I'll give you that. I was wrong in my statement about anyone's rationale for purchasing without a test drive.

I offered to let it go before, but you posted with misrepresentations of my statements, so I'm responding. I've admitted my original error and I'm happy to let you have the last word, but not if it's misrepresenting what I said.

 

[mpt]

Posts moved to an off-topic thread.

 

[EVNow]

Interesting dichotomy, buying a car without a test drive is too risky but you're prepared to risk eternity by ruling out the possibility that God exists.

But, as they say, so do the religious. The religious bet that only one religion is right (their own !) and not any of the other thousands. We are just betting that none of them are right. Odds of us going to hell isn't all the high compared to the religious. ;-)

 

[doug]

That was completely and utterly uncalled for and even more disgusting others are encouraging it.

Doug, this goes way beyond the bounds of acceptable.

Sorry, I was out of town (just got back) and didn't get a chance to deal with this. But really?? Lighten up. The only person I really see stepping over a line here is you. Please relax.

--------------

Folks, I don't mind the random off topic discussion. But primarily, this is an electric car forum focused on Tesla Motors. Reasonable people should be able to figure out what topics are within our scope and which are not. If you want to talk about the fundamental meaning of existence or whatever, that's fine. But understand that there are probably better places on the internet to do that, and that place certainly isn't in the middle of a thread about getting test drives.

Three simple rules that keep this a nice place to hang out:

1.) Stay on topic.
2.) Use common courtesy.
3.) Give others the benefit of the doubt.

 

[ckessel]

Sorry, I was out of town (just got back) and didn't get a chance to deal with this. But really?? Lighten up. The only person I really see stepping over a line here is you. Please relax.

I gave an example of friends overcoming a difference and was attack by Nigel with an out of context snippet, related back to an earlier comment which I'd already clarified and admitted error. Nigel's post gets no reprimand, he never offers even a token apology or clarification. It feels lopsided. The "battery brick" threads (which Nigel and Bonnie were smack in the middle of) had far more vitriolic statements than mine here with people saying condescending, terrible things.

I'm disappointed you don't see why this bothered me, though I do appreciate you having looked in and commented. Perhaps best to lock or outright delete the thread?

 

[NigelM]

@ckessel : Bro, in a couple of places I was labelled "crazy" and, at least once, "insane"....I'm always prepared to argue my case, but I don't think I attacked anybody. In that we were discussing test-drives and someone brought up religion, my comment wasn't out of context either. Now, did I make a joke at your expense? Yes. I apologize.

@EVNow : Always remember that Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe in the same God, we just go about worshiping Him in very different ways. But as Doug says, there's plenty of other places to have that discussion.

Peace.

 

[neroden]

According to the last studies I checked, practically everyone holds contradictory beliefs, which implies that practically everyone holds some delusional and therefore "insane" (unsound) beliefs.

So I took the statements about "crazy" at that level; everyone's a bit crazy in one way or another. We may strive to be more rational and less crazy (I do, I do) but we are fundamentally not rational creatures, according to all psychological research. Believing that you are entirely rational is, in fact, clearly a delusional and crazy belief. :wink: So I try to think of "you'd have to be crazy to believe that" as an extremely mild criticism.