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Bernstein: Germans disrupt $TSLA, $TSLA too slow to fight back

Johan

Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Feb 9, 2012
7,509
10,013
Drammen, Norway
They are working on their own versions of the Tesla Model S and Model X – with cars like the Porsche Mission E, Audi Q6 e-tron, BMW i5 and a Mercedes product (unnamed) all due in the next few years.

Sign me up for the [Mercedes product (unnamed)]. Sounds like marvellous competetition!

Also gotta love this by-line from the author of the article, referencing the joker's report:


Bertel Schmitt
After a 40 year hiatus, spent doing propaganda in the automotive industry around the world, Bertel returns as a journalist and to the roots of his initials. His wife is a late model Japanese Import.

:wink:
 

Discoducky

P100DL, 2021 M3, 4 CT reservations and counting
Supporting Member
Dec 25, 2011
4,485
17,073
My mountain
Written by the guy who made an unsolicited bet with the internet that he would eat his hat if autopilot could change lanes on its own, then failed to do so. Zero credibility, if that wasn't already obvious from the title of this piece.
Agreed, he banned folks for calling him out on Twitter, anything this guy writes is filled with FUD
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,617
3,222
It's difficult to take them seriously with:
Elon Musk, speaking about Tesla’s Autonomous Driving technology recently
To my recollection, Elon has never spoken about Tesla delivering Autonomous anything publicly.

- - - Updated - - -

Apparently, the Germans got this electric car thing all figured out.
Cool, where do I buy one?
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,617
3,222
These are the only two references to "Autonomous" in the story, and they support my point:
Unlike Google, which is aiming for a fully-autonomous vehicle, Tesla's approach is to gradually introduce features which take away the need for drivers to carry out certain functions.
Other car manufacturers such as BMW and Volvo are also developing, and implementing, autonomous features to their cars.
If the OP article is accurate in the portrayal of the statements of "the Germans", then the Germans are either "slow" or are intentionally mislabeling Tesla's current autopilot features as "autonomous" and then comparing that with their proposed future "autonomous" offerings. In at least 2 ways, that's an invalid comparison.

It's like comparing an abacus to an IPad. Different time periods and different technology family.
 

dirkhh

Middle-aged Member
Jul 7, 2013
3,638
128
Portland, OR, USA
I think it would be wonderful if the German car makers start getting serious about electric cars.

And no, the i3 is not being serious. And the i5 is once again styled to be not serious.
The Mission E sounded reasonably interesting. Audi's eTron SUV, allegedly coming by 2018 (so only two years after the Model X) would be great (the pics so far show standard Audi design language).
Mercedes is also talking about a late 2018 introduction.

So assuming they don't kill these cars again, we might have some actual competition and some alternatives in a few years.

But until that time, until we see pricing, specs, design... yeah, nothing but FUD.
 

brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,617
3,222
I think it would be wonderful if the German car makers start getting serious about electric cars.

And no, the i3 is not being serious. And the i5 is once again styled to be not serious.
The Mission E sounded reasonably interesting. Audi's eTron SUV, allegedly coming by 2018 (so only two years after the Model X) would be great (the pics so far show standard Audi design language).
Mercedes is also talking about a late 2018 introduction.

So assuming they don't kill these cars again, we might have some actual competition and some alternatives in a few years.

But until that time, until we see pricing, specs, design... yeah, nothing but FUD.
Open challenge to all non-Tesla automakers:
Ignore acceleration and top speed for a moment. Make an electric car that beats the Model S in range and feature set at the same price point. Do it before Model 3 deliveries. Please. We beg you.

No one will meet that challenge. I stand a better chance winning all the prizes in Pollux's drawing with only 6 tickets.
 

dirkhh

Middle-aged Member
Jul 7, 2013
3,638
128
Portland, OR, USA
Open challenge to all non-Tesla automakers:
Ignore acceleration and top speed for a moment. Make an electric car that beats the Model S in range and feature set at the same price point. Do it before Model 3 deliveries. Please. We beg you.

Frankly, the bar is even lower than that. You don't need to "beat" the Model S. You need to be in the same ball park. Give me a comfortable, somewhat luxurious car that looks like a car, has 200+ mile range and is in the same ball park price point.
I'd pay $100k for an actual 5 series BMW with 7sec 0-60 acceleration, 200 mile range... and decent equipment level.
Or for an X5 for that matter.

I still am NOT holding my breath :-(
 
These people keep thinking Tesla is like a typical car company from Detroit. It is not, if you compare what kind of people work there, its more like Google/Facebook. Tesla with 14,000 employees and counting.. what 1600 jobs are posted, this company is just going to go out control (growth wise). Tesla might not be able to react to hardware changes quickly (yet), but they can react to software changes at super speeds (people are already testing version 7.1 software). What other car maker does it this fast? 0

These people are just in denial. Yes there are risks but you could say the same thing about any other company. Remember when Steve Jobs left and people said Apple will fade away? It is even stronger now. Long term is questionable for me, but for the next 5 years they should be safe.
 
These people keep thinking Tesla is like a typical car company from Detroit. It is not, if you compare what kind of people work there, its more like Google/Facebook. Tesla with 14,000 employees and counting.. what 1600 jobs are posted, this company is just going to go out control (growth wise). Tesla might not be able to react to hardware changes quickly (yet), but they can react to software changes at super speeds (people are already testing version 7.1 software). What other car maker does it this fast? 0

These people are just in denial. Yes there are risks but you could say the same thing about any other company. Remember when Steve Jobs left and people said Apple will fade away? It is even stronger now. Long term is questionable for me, but for the next 5 years they should be safe.

Tesla is built to last. Look at the mission: To accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. That mission is very different than the BMW mission: "BMW Group is the world's leading provider of premium products and premium services for individual mobility."

GM doesn't even have a mission statement - just a loose set of corporate speak:
“Making the world’s best vehicles can only happen with the world’s greatest employees. We take great pride in our work, and take great care to deliver exceptional cars and a positive ownership experience to our customers around the world.At the new GM, we make a strong commitment to our customers, employees, partners and other important stakeholders. We state proudly our five principles that guide us in everything we do:

  • [*=left]Safety and Quality First
    [*=left]Create Lifelong Customers
    [*=left]Innovate
    [*=left]Deliver Long-Term Investment Value
    [*=left]Make a Positive Difference”

Tesla has rabid fan base because it offers people something to believe in. It offers products in several categories to help those people achieve a dream. BMW, GM, and the rest offer - cars - a way to get from point a to point b. No emotion. No vision. No dream.

I believe Tesla will, for a very long time, be THE company that all the others are trying to catch. Over at least the next decade, they will be the ones willing to push the boundaries beyond what the others can, or even be willing to, do. IF they ever stop making cars, (which I doubt), they've got the Super Charger Network and Powerwall as supporting technologies.

Globally, we currently consume 100 million barrels of oil a day. At $40 a barrel, that's $3.8B A DAY and $1.4T A YEAR in transportation related energy revenue. BEVs are enevitable. Who and how to provide the energy for that transport is key. Why stop at cars. Cargo trucks and boats along with aeronautics is also possible.

Who knows what's next.
 
Tesla is built to last. Look at the mission: To accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. That mission is very different than the BMW mission: "BMW Group is the world's leading provider of premium products and premium services for individual mobility."

GM doesn't even have a mission statement - just a loose set of corporate speak:
“Making the world’s best vehicles can only happen with the world’s greatest employees. We take great pride in our work, and take great care to deliver exceptional cars and a positive ownership experience to our customers around the world.At the new GM, we make a strong commitment to our customers, employees, partners and other important stakeholders. We state proudly our five principles that guide us in everything we do:


  • [*=left]Safety and Quality First
    [*=left]Create Lifelong Customers
    [*=left]Innovate
    [*=left]Deliver Long-Term Investment Value
    [*=left]Make a Positive Difference”

Tesla has rabid fan base because it offers people something to believe in. It offers products in several categories to help those people achieve a dream. BMW, GM, and the rest offer - cars - a way to get from point a to point b. No emotion. No vision. No dream.

I believe Tesla will, for a very long time, be THE company that all the others are trying to catch. Over at least the next decade, they will be the ones willing to push the boundaries beyond what the others can, or even be willing to, do. IF they ever stop making cars, (which I doubt), they've got the Super Charger Network and Powerwall as supporting technologies.

Globally, we currently consume 100 million barrels of oil a day. At $40 a barrel, that's $3.8B A DAY and $1.4T A YEAR in transportation related energy revenue. BEVs are enevitable. Who and how to provide the energy for that transport is key. Why stop at cars. Cargo trucks and boats along with aeronautics is also possible.

Who knows what's next.

Well Said! GM, VW (and Toyota to a lesser extent) mission statements and recent corporate behavior demonstrate an automotive industry culture ripe for disruption! ..across the globe!
 
I believe Tesla will, for a very long time, be THE company that all the others are trying to catch. Over at least the next decade, they will be the ones willing to push the boundaries beyond what the others can, or even be willing to, do. IF they ever stop making cars, (which I doubt), they've got the Super Charger Network and Powerwall as supporting technologies.

I agree. Musk is a perfectionist who pushes innovation and design to new avenues. The other automakers will probably always be one step behind (at least when it comes to innovation).
 

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