Best alignment settings - educate me please

[Bull]

I get much better times with the 19" tires on there because they stay planted all the way across.

It seems that the 19" wheels do get a tenth or so better times. Sidewall flex must be a big part of allowing a better hookup since the 19" tires are exactly the same diameter (10mm narrower though). I'm hoping for better times once I can adjust them to be flatter on the ground.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Clearly one thing I am missing here is knowing what my current toe is. This car is still on the factory alignment. The wear problem could easily be mostly a toe problem as Jamie and others have pointed out.

Less negative camber will help with traction at launch. Now I just need to decide on front toe. Looks like either neutral or slightly in for the front will be best for my needs. I don't want to have to be doing any more corrections than necessary at >150 mph.

Tesla's own alignments - whether from the factory or at the SC - are abysmal. But the average seems to be about 0.15 Out for the front, and 0.2 In for the back.

I have mine set to 0.05 Out for the front, and 0.1 In for the rear, and my inner edge wear is fine. I have very minor corrections at highway speeds, but it handles well (for a 5k lb car) at AutoX. Once you get your car to the alignment shop, ask them to do a current state print out for you and review where you want things set before they do any work. Then you can see where your current settings are, and give them guidance on exactly how to align it.

I would not toe-in for the front. But if you want to go more neutral from toe-out, that's fine. How often are you running 150 mph?

 

[Bull]

Tesla's own alignments - whether from the factory or at the SC - are abysmal. But the average seems to be about 0.15 Out for the front, and 0.2 In for the back.

I have mine set to 0.05 Out for the front, and 0.1 In for the rear, and my inner edge wear is fine. I have very minor corrections at highway speeds, but it handles well (for a 5k lb car) at AutoX. Once you get your car to the alignment shop, ask them to do a current state print out for you and review where you want things set before they do any work. Then you can see where your current settings are, and give them guidance on exactly how to align it.

I would not toe-in for the front. But if you want to go more neutral from toe-out, that's fine. How often are you running 150 mph?

Thats good advice. I will definitely ask for a current state print out.

I have a good relationship with my local SC and they do have very new alignment equipment. I looked but no one seems to be happy with any alignment shops in Tucson so it's either the SC or drive to Phoenix. My SC told me they will align to my specific specs but I will be paying for the extra time needed.

I hit the drag strip once or twice a month and usually get in 6 to 10 runs trapping over 150 mph.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

My SC told me they will align to my specific specs but I will be paying for the extra time needed.

Dang, lucky win on that one. Most SCs, including the 4 near me, only do what I have affectionately called "blind alignments" - named as such both by the quality of output, and the limited input you get.

Basically, you drop the car off, you get no input, they do some adjusting, and send you on your way with no output report. Huzzah.

 

[Sam1]

It seems that the 19" wheels do get a tenth or so better times. Sidewall flex must be a big part of allowing a better hookup since the 19" tires are exactly the same diameter (10mm narrower though). I'm hoping for better times once I can adjust them to be flatter on the ground.

The tread width is way more than 10mm smaller because of the tire profile. I crudely snapped some pics of the 19" vs 21". The 21" has a solid 1.5" more tread width.

 

[Bull]

Dang, lucky win on that one. Most SCs, including the 4 near me, only do what I have affectionately called "blind alignments" - named as such both by the quality of output, and the limited input you get.

Basically, you drop the car off, you get no input, they do some adjusting, and send you on your way with no output report. Huzzah.

I agree. Its a good relationship. I show my Plaid to potential buyers for them because they have not had any MS in stock for years. Donuts and bagels on a regular basis helps too.

 

[Bull]

The tread width is way more than 10mm smaller because of the tire profile. I crudely snapped some pics of the 19" vs 21". The 21" has a solid 1.5" more tread width.

View attachment 890424

View attachment 890425

That is interesting. Why do the 19" wheels run faster? More weight per sq inch on the contact patch?

 

[ramirj2]

That is interesting. Why do the 19" wheels run faster? More weight per sq inch on the contact patch?

Less weight / inertia and more sidewall improves 60'.

 

[Sam1]

Less weight / inertia and more sidewall improves 60'.

Plus less resistance at higher speeds.

 

[geordi]

The factory alignment even on NEW cars is just atrocious. It looks like they did it with their eyes closed. This is a brand new MX at a dealer / SC in NJ a couple weeks ago. I feel like that one will wear out the inside edge before it clears the parking lot! There is no excuse for this.

Phone is flat on the floor and lined up with the outside edge of the wheel, look at the far doorway as a reference for vertical. We shouldn't be able to see it like this.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

The factory alignment even on NEW cars is just atrocious. It looks like they did it with their eyes closed. This is a brand new MX at a dealer / SC in NJ a couple weeks ago. I feel like that one will wear out the inside edge before it clears the parking lot! There is no excuse for this.

Phone is flat on the floor and lined up with the outside edge of the wheel, look at the far doorway as a reference for vertical. We shouldn't be able to see it like this.

View attachment 890583

Rear camber alone isn't the biggest issue here. If you go to any German car lot, they look exactly the same. Many, many cars come with a decent amount of negative rear camber to give it a little more "cornering feel" on the cheap.

You can sometimes visually see that the toe is off from the factory, and i've definitely seen that a bunch of times, which is just sloppy workmanship and one of the biggest causes of extra inner edge wear.

 

[geordi]

Either one will wear a tire heavily uneven. But toe should (in theory) be scrubbing across the entire tread surface and pulling the car in that direction, IF the camber isn't also stupid at the same time.

In this case, I don't know what the toe was b/c I wasn't really looking for it, but that camber would definitely scrub the inside edge significantly harder than the outside. Just the weight profile sitting on the ground as it is rolling in a straight line will put more effort into the inside edge. Possibly great for rolling resistance, but LOUSY for the tires.

It's like taking a shopping cart and tilting it onto one side, the rolling resistance is reduced while it is only putting an edge on the ground.

 

[Bull]

Installed N2itive rear camber arms and lowering links (set at -4) yesterday. I started with the links set at -6 but could not get to a "Ready to Launch" screen. At -4 it shows it sometimes so I stopped there.

Here is what I ended up with. I pre-adjusted the camber arms to get as close as possible to the rear camber I was looking for. This helped a lot and took me from -2.7 to approx -1.3 degrees. I decided to leave it in that range since I still wanted some camber while in medium position as well.
There was a lot of toe even after the pre-alignment camber adjustment so the new toe will be a welcome change.
The front left camber adjustment is maxed out so I'm hoping there is a way to shim that. Any suggestions are welcome.

I'm planning on taking it back after driving for a few weeks to see if any changes are needed.

What do you think of the result? I appreciate all of the sage advice here.

 

[Sam1]

Installed N2itive rear camber arms and lowering links (set at -4) yesterday. I started with the links set at -6 but could not get to a "Ready to Launch" screen. At -4 it shows it sometimes so I stopped there.

Here is what I ended up with. I pre-adjusted the camber arms to get as close as possible to the rear camber I was looking for. This helped a lot and took me from -2.7 to approx -1.3 degrees. I decided to leave it in that range since I still wanted some camber while in medium position as well.
There was a lot of toe even after the pre-alignment camber adjustment so the new toe will be a welcome change.
The front left camber adjustment is maxed out so I'm hoping there is a way to shim that. Any suggestions are welcome.

I'm planning on taking it back after driving for a few weeks to see if any changes are needed.

What do you think of the result? I appreciate all of the sage advice here.

Holy crap your rear toe was almost 400% the max recommended.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Installed N2itive rear camber arms and lowering links (set at -4) yesterday. I started with the links set at -6 but could not get to a "Ready to Launch" screen. At -4 it shows it sometimes so I stopped there.

Here is what I ended up with. I pre-adjusted the camber arms to get as close as possible to the rear camber I was looking for. This helped a lot and took me from -2.7 to approx -1.3 degrees. I decided to leave it in that range since I still wanted some camber while in medium position as well.
There was a lot of toe even after the pre-alignment camber adjustment so the new toe will be a welcome change.
The front left camber adjustment is maxed out so I'm hoping there is a way to shim that. Any suggestions are welcome.

I'm planning on taking it back after driving for a few weeks to see if any changes are needed.

What do you think of the result? I appreciate all of the sage advice here.

You will want to get your front camber values closer to each other or you may have a "push" to the side with lower camber.

There is a vendor who sells adjustable upper control arms that will let you dial in a bit more/less camber - i am not sure who it is off hand, but it does exist. With that said, -1.6 degrees is pretty good, i'd just set both sides to that and go with it.

 

[MountainPass]

Holy crap your rear toe was almost 400% the max recommended.

He installed the camber arms and extended them to reduce the camber before going for the alignment. Extending the RUCA will result in excessive toe-in, so I wouldn't use his "initial" measurements for any sort of reference!

 

[Bull]

You will want to get your front camber values closer to each other or you may have a "push" to the side with lower camber.

There is a vendor who sells adjustable upper control arms that will let you dial in a bit more/less camber - i am not sure who it is off hand, but it does exist. With that said, -1.6 degrees is pretty good, i'd just set both sides to that and go with it.

Agreed. I have not noticed it yet while driving but will try to get some highway time to check.

If you remember the vendor selling the upper control arms please post it. Maybe @MountainPass ? Edit: they posted while I was typing reply and I assume it is not them since they did not offer.

Otherwise I'll need to try to shim it out.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

There is a vendor who sells adjustable upper control arms that will let you dial in a bit more/less camber - i am not sure who it is off hand, but it does exist. With that said, -1.6 degrees is pretty good, i'd just set both sides to that and go with it.

Found it:

12+ Tesla Model S Truhart Front Adjustable Camber Arms

TruHart adjustable front camber arms replace your factory front upper control arms allowing for necessary adjustment after lowering your vehicle. Our camber kits utilize hardened rubber bushings which allow less deflection and provide a more direct feel road feel than OE bushings. Low profile...

coiloverdepot.com

If you want extra adjustability up front, this'll do it. TBH, very few vendors have aftermarket gear for the 1st gen Model S, which is what I have. These TruHart ones are the only adjustable front suspension components that I've ever seen. Plaid will likely have a lot more aftermarket support.

 

[Bull]

Found it:

12+ Tesla Model S Truhart Front Adjustable Camber Arms

TruHart adjustable front camber arms replace your factory front upper control arms allowing for necessary adjustment after lowering your vehicle. Our camber kits utilize hardened rubber bushings which allow less deflection and provide a more direct feel road feel than OE bushings. Low profile...

coiloverdepot.com

If you want extra adjustability up front, this'll do it. TBH, very few vendors have aftermarket gear for the 1st gen Model S. These TruHart ones are the only adjustable front suspension components that I've ever seen.

I just sent them an email to check compatibility with my Plaid. Will post answer.

 

[Sam1]

He installed the camber arms and extended them to reduce the camber before going for the alignment. Extending the RUCA will result in excessive toe-in, so I wouldn't use his "initial" measurements for any sort of reference!

Thanks - do you think it pushed it out that far even though his camber was still within oem spec after install though?