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"Best Car for $35K even without any options" vs

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by insaneoctane, May 28, 2017.

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  1. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Member

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    Ok, I think Elon will be challenged to meet this claim and anti-sell the M3 to keep it always less than the MS. Here's my example to compare:
    2017 Honda Accord Touring has....
    • Bluetooth handsfreelink
    • Rearward camera
    • Dual-zone auto climate control
    • smart entry
    • push button start
    • one-touch power moonroof
    • Apple carplay
    • Android Auto
    • Leather trimmed seating
    • Heated front seats
    • Power front seats
    • 2-position memory drivers seat
    • 278 v-6
    • 6 spd auto trans
    • Navigation
    • Lane assist
    • Adaptive CC
    • Collison Mitigation Braking Sys
    • Road Departure Mitigation Sys
    • LED headlights
    • Heated rear seats (outboard)
    • 19" Alloy wheels
    For $34,930

    Besides the obvious lack of V-6 and 6-speed transmission (that's a good thing to NOT have), do we think the M3 will match this offering?
     
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  2. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    It depends on how you define the word "best" in this context. Interpretations will vary, as usual.
     
  3. strykeroz

    strykeroz Member

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    "best" is a tremendously subjective term.

    Hoping the OP's model comparison holds for the pricing locally though as the Accord V6L as it's sold here is $53k (AUD) plus onroads. It's rated at 9.8l/100km though and that's something I'm looking to do without finally with the M3.

    My first car was a 1978 Honda Accord...and it made the good side of 6l/100km on the highway, even the way I drove it. Honda used to make their name from the way they squeezed performance from small engines. Shame while Accord is now much larger, 40 years on that economy headline has left the brochure (and the economy/performance specs could be from anyone). That's why I've put money down on an american car this time round if you're wondering Honda.
     
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  4. R.S

    R.S Member

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    It won't be the best 35k car for anyone, ever. That's a promise they can't keep. For 35k you can buy a very well equipped small CUV, a badly equipped truck, a minivan, a sports car, a muscle car and so on. It just is a too diverse car range, you can buy for 35k, so being better than anyone of those in every respect is impossible.

    So if you just value 0-60, or leather, or tech, or looks, or interior space, or off-road capability, or handling the Model 3 surely won't be the best car out there. So it will be highly subjective, if the Model 3 will be the best car. Elon thinks so and many others will, too. But there will still be enough that will say you can get more, if you buy an Accord, or a Mustang, or a Golf R and they will have a point, too.
     
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  5. azred

    azred Member

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    #5 azred, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    After reading this thread I swear we have some severely nearsighted posters. I have owned some special cars in my lengthy lifetime and they came in a lot of different packages and prices. I certainly could attempt to rank them best to worst. But my Model S would not even be part of the ranking simply because it is so fundamentally different...and different in a better way. The upstart company Tesla may not survive its growing pains but I think it has shown the world that modern electric vehicles are superior in every way that matters and these cars are on the cusp of affordability for the masses -- certainly within a decade or less.

    There obviously remain steep challenges, principally a much better charging network for all electric vehicles, continuous improvement of battery technology and greatly reduced battery production costs. But all three challenges seem manageable within just a few years, certainly not decades.

    The Model 3 will be the best $35k car until an electric car costing that amount beats it. The Bolt appears to be a good effort but styling is worthy of a $15k car and long distance travel is too challenging to be practical. It seems obvious that China will be a key player whether Tesla is around or not. China needs electric cars. Europe also needs electric cars. Does the United States need them? Certainly there is more resistance here -- even in this thread written by Tesla fans -- but American resistance won't stop the momentum.

    I am excited to get my hands on my new Model 3 in some ways even more than I was when I bought my Model S, as it will become a daily driver and the smaller size should fit those driving needs even better than its much larger cousin. Musk is fighting a losing battle to convert 3 sales to S and X sales. He got some of us to bite with the software limited 60s, but we didn't have a choice then. That is about to change.
     
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  6. diamond.g

    diamond.g Member

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    I had thought it was inferred that it would be the best from the choice of it's competitors (Audi, BMW, Mercedes). He really should have just come out and say that.
     
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  7. landis

    landis Member

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    I presume you intended to say for everyone, always.

    Otherwise this one M3 first data reservation data point (is an anyone that) proves your point false.

    But then I have no interest in SUV/CUV, minivan, truck, sports car, muscle car and so on. Rather I envied those able to obtain an EV1 back in the day...

    It will be an awesome step up from previous Corolla and current bridge PriusC, with a competitive TCO to both.
     
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  8. roguenode

    roguenode Member

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    I'm pretty sure it will be the best $35k car I could buy, but then again, I haven't had an ICE car in a couple of years and each time I drive one I am reminded of how crude, rough, loud, and unresponsive they feel. ymmv.
     
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  9. SarahsDad

    SarahsDad Member

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    #9 SarahsDad, May 28, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
    Elon has referred to BMW 3 series as an appropriate comparison to the Model 3. The Base BMW, 320i, lists at $33,450, comes standard with 17" wheels and 'leatherette' upholstery , and does NOT include navigation, parking sensors, glass roof, heated seats, backup camera, LED headlights, auto high beams, power seats, keyless entry, garage opener, lumbar support, split rear fold down seats, or XM radio. Even floor mats are extra ($148).

    Compare that to a maxed out BMW M3 and you tip the scales at $94,438. Elon surely will want to compete at both ends of the spectrum...
     
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  10. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    The Volt has all (minus memory seats) of the above plus:

    * Electric drive for most short trips (average Volt owner has more electric miles than the average Model S driver)
    * Remote start and cabin preconditioning
    * level 1 Charging cable
    * Onstar for safety and remote diagnostics
    * Sirus Radio
    * CD and MP3 playback
    * adjustable regeneration settings
    * No V6 or transmission but a better electric motor.
     
  11. diamond.g

    diamond.g Member

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    The new Volts have power front seats now?
     
  12. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    How much is EV drivetrain option on the Honda?
     
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  13. R.S

    R.S Member

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    Yea, I meant it won't be the best 35k car for everyone, but I'll still keep the ever.

    Right now there are very dominant issues, that will keep a big portion of potential customers away. Be it range, or charging network, related issues, or just that it won't come with the equipment of a cheaper car, with all boxes ticked.

    But even if they continue to improve it, make more options standard, or the base car cheaper, give it more range, quicker charging combined with a lot more public chargers, even then it won't be the best 35k car for everyone.

    But if it is the best car for a big minority of people, it would be quite the success.
     
  14. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Comparing a Civic Hybrid to a Volt is pointless. All Civic Hybrid owners always burns gas each trip, even 1 mile. There is no EV only mode. And the Honda's electric motor is very weak.

    The median Volt owner is driving an EV more often than they are driving a hybrid. 75.6% (and rising) of their miles they are running as an EV with full peak power and 101 mph available. The gas engine just along for the ride in case Hybrid mode becomes necessary. Sometimes you go a month or more without the gas engine running. But even in Hybrid mode, the Volt does not lose performance.

    But what really separates them is that performance. The Civic Hybrid has 2000 era econobox performance levels. The Volt is quicker in EV mode, and quicker in Hybrid mode. And it's virtually instant, all the time, no lag. In traffic, it's quicker than ICE cars with far more HP when a sudden need occurs.
     
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  15. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    I do not think so but gen 1 are manual and very easy to set with plenty of adjustment options.
     
  16. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    The Bolt to me is not an option. But GM deserves kudos for a really good commuter car. But I don't need that. I want an everyday car that can also make several long trips each year. The more I learn about the Model 3 the less I want it. I would really like a Model Y. Of course the 3 was a smaller version right from the start and I thought I wanted it. Time with the S (after a Yukon) convinced me to keep a bigger car. Maybe in a few more years I will downgrade to a smaller car, not yet
     
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  17. AudubonB

    AudubonB Mild-mannered Moderator Lord Vetinari*

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    This being an EV forum it's going to be rather difficult to find posters who believe any non-EV will be superior, for them, than a Model 3. No responder has yet, for example, asked "where in your garage do you fill up that Accord Touring's tank?"

    Regardless, the best-for-all-persons-in-all-situations ultimatum is the shoal upon which any such statement always will founder. It remains supremely awkward, to use kind words, to drive a Tesla here in Paxson; until there is something resembling a reasonable charging network throughout Alaska that will remain the case (it DOES make a phenomenal impact on our business's guests and that's the sole saving quasi-practical grace...for the present). Practical or not, to the extent it's possible, I'd much rather drive the Model S or X, or the upcoming Model 3, than the F-350, E-350, F-250, FJ62, BJ40, Subaru Outback or VW Golf...when I can (doesn't anyone want to make a bid on any of these?)
     
  18. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Ah, the E350, the Swiss Army Knife of people movers. Up to 15 large adults, or up to 2500lb of cargo, heavy trailers, or a mixture of the three. Say 8 large adults and a huge amount of gear or 15 with a trailer for gear.

    The drawbacks were poor economy in the gas versions, and no OEM 4x4 version. But chains and tires would certainly work fine. Advantages were removable rows of seating to optimize the task, great visibility and excellent reliability when used for commercial level duty. Most ambulances were using this as the base for a long time with the 7.3L diesel.

    It's gone now, and I haven't driven it's replacement. It will be many years before a BEV replacement under $100k that will do what a E350 will. EREV will work today, BEV currently will not. The battery weight required would eliminate the payload. At least 250kWh to be useful.
     
  19. insaneoctane

    insaneoctane Member

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    I had really intended to use Elon's quote to wonder about standard options. I picked a sedan which (the M3 is a sedan folks) happens to set the mark high and is recognized by winning Car and Drivers top 10 award 30 times over the last 32 years. Now, if the way out of the comparison is to say it's an EV, well I don't think Elon would necessarily agree with that excuse, simply because I feel that Tesla's Charter has been to accelerate the adoption of EV into the mainstream by showing that they don't have to be weird or lacking in range like all EVs were until Tesla showed up. Now, I personally agree with most of members in this forum that the EV powertrain is superior to ICE, but I won't turn a blind eye to what else I could do with my $35K. I would very much like to have all or most of the options that I listed in the OP and each one that I can't have or have to pay extra for will add to the consideration list of what is the best use of my $35K. Now I happen to be a huge supporter of both Tesla and EVs (and a stock holder) , so maybe I will compromise on some of them more than the average Joe... But don't forget that 60% of Americans have never heard of EVs (Study: 60 Percent of U.S. Drivers Haven’t Heard of—Or Know Little about—Electric Cars) . I really do think that saying "Yes, but it's an EV" should be minimized when addressing any shortcomings and I am hoping that "You can't get a better car for $35K even without any options" isn't with a hidden "among other EVs" asterisk. I know that I will get many replies about how I am wrong, but I am just sharing what I am thinking and why....
     
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  20. igotzzoom

    igotzzoom Supporting Member

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    Besides which, the Civic Hybrid is out of production. The closest equivalent now is the Clarity. The EV's 80-mile range is a joke, though.
     

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