Best Car in the World?

[chrisn]

One observation: I think a very high percentage of factors that people are using in their assessment of "best" are actually related to "novelty" and not "goodness." As a thought experiment, assume that the current Model S was the third generation Model S. Compare it to the competition without giving it any credit for novelty. On that basis, I don't think anyone would call it "best." Perhaps "Car of the Year" or "Best new Model," but *BEST* overall (or even "Best Sedan") is a lot harder. Why should buyers accept a lesser car just because it is a new model?

For nerds/early adopters/enthusiats like us here, we get full value for getting the "new new thing," and will overlook lots of second-order defects. For the broader sedan-buying public, they care less about novelty and more about quality/value/luxury/refinement.

I think some roadster owners are the worst offenders: they (rightfully) love their cars for the raw sporty drivetrain / performance and ascribe little value to luxury gadgetronics and precision fit/finish. But it would be a mistake to extrapolate this perspective to the broader target audience of the Model S.

 

[Tempus]

I think the real issue is that it's a poor question. The only way this can be answered is personally (ie, the best car FOR ME), and so you are by nature of the question, going to get opinions as varied as there are people trying to answer the question. It's hard to have a meaningful discussion about why this isn't the best car in the world for smorgasborg (not picking on you specifically, you were just vocal in the thread). Only he can really answer that, and you can't really dispute it, because it may very well be true for him.

For me personally, it IS the best car in the world. Hell, there's no way i'd be spending 4x as much as i've ever spent on a car if it weren't. While i agree with a lot of the criticisms, to me the basics of the car (EV, superb acceleration and handling, never having to put gas in it, etc...) WAY more than trump those other items. And i know that's true, because when i was getting ready to lock in my purchase, i thought about other cars (audi, BMW) that i might get for similar money, and none of them meet my criteria for my next car.

 

[NigelM]

Smorgasbord listed a bunch of things, some subjective and some not, things that are generally desirable and not unusual to expect of higher end cars in the luxury market niche. I'm disturbed by the level of hostility he's gotten for making a rather measured and unaggressive post.

I don't see any hostility; there are different opinions and that's fair. Please use the report post feature if you see anything you regard as offensive.

 

[mnx]

I had to laugh out loud yesterday. I've only had an hour inside the car max (including checking out betas) plus a 20 minute testdrive. I wonder how all our opinions will change over the next few years...

 

[spatterso911]

I don't see any hostility; there are different opinions and that's fair. Please use the report post feature if you see anything you regard as offensive.

Well, Nigel, it may not be hostility, but certainly a sense of condescension or negativity over having a dissenting opinion. My opinion is that the car is not yet ready to take the title. My response has been - forget the shortcomings, missing features, etc... It's obviously the best because its novel, new, battery powered, and of course, the future versions will be even better, so it should be considered the best now.

 

[richkae]

Any other car in the world? Not just sedan? Not just new? You're kidding, right?

(I'd find it hard to refuse a new Eagle Speedster. I previously owned a '66 Jag E-Type.)

I am not kidding, and I will tell you why, my rules were carefully chosen.

I would love a Porsche 918 Spyder. Looks like an awesome car. However, the rules are that I would have to give up the Model S, and could not get another.
So now I would have a Porsche 918 Spyder that has the same passenger and cargo limitations as the Roadster. My entire family, or me and 1 passenger and luggage will not fit in either the Roadster or the Porsche. So some days I would get to enjoy the 918 Spyder, but a lot of the time I would have to use a compromise vehicle instead of the Model S and be dissatisfied.
So instead of my Model S, I would have a very expensive to operate, repair and maintain 918 Spyder, and a compromise car inferior to the Model S.

I want to enjoy my driving all the time, not just some of the time.

 

[Norbert]

I understand people who think Tesla's drivetrain is so great, it doesn't matter if much of the rest of the car is sub-par.

First of all, to me that sounds like an insult designed to provoke negativity in the first place.

But before I say more, I have to ask: When you say "drivetrain", does that include handling, suspension, noise/vibration/harshness, crash test ratings and aerodynamics?

 

[Tommy]

First of all, to me that sounds like an insult designed to provoke negativity in the first place.

But before I say more, I have to ask: When you say "drivetrain", does that include handling, suspension, noise/vibration/harshness, crash test ratings and aerodynamics?

Some comic relief is in order: I see hints of smoothoperator's writing style surfacing.

I love both of you guys postings; both of you always provide a great read and insight.

 

[Norbert]

Some comic relief is in order: I see hints of smoothoperator's writing style surfacing.

I don't remember, and probably never noticed smoothoperator's writing style, but I'm probably getting tired of reading lists of missing convenience and electronic-assist features every day, like we never heard of them before.

 

[AnOutsider]

I don't remember, and probably never noticed smoothoperator's writing style, but I'm probably getting tired of reading lists of missing convenience and electronic-assist features every day, like we never heard of them before.

Automatic folding mirrors was just recently confirmed as being missing. People are now getting cars and reporting on what is and isn't there. It's only natural that discussions regarding what is and isn't on the car would surface -- ESPECIALLY in a thread discussing if the Model S is the best car in the world. Don't let others not sharing your positive outlook ruin things for you. We can disagree without there being animosity.

 

[Norbert]

Automatic folding mirrors was just recently confirmed as being missing. People are now getting cars and reporting on what is and isn't there. It's only natural that discussions regarding what is and isn't on the car would surface -- ESPECIALLY in a thread discussing if the Model S is the best car in the world. Don't let others not sharing your positive outlook ruin things for you. We can disagree without there being animosity.

MNX mentioned power folding mirrors in the first post already. Those who say here that they consider the Model S the "best" car or sedan, are well aware of those things.

 

[jerry33]

I don't believe any one car can be best--even given that best is a subjective opinion. I have five I consider best:

1. Rolls Royce Silver Ghost. The first reliable car. A lot of ground breaking engineering went into making a car that didn't break down every 100 miles or so. During WWI many got converted into armoured vehicles and worked well even when carrying much more than the designers imagined.

2. Citroën ID/DS. First production car with disk brakes. Also hydro-pneumatic suspension with on-the-fly height adjustment, inboard brakes, centre point steering, advanced safety features (for the day), aerodynamic styling, the list goes on. This was in 1955. A lot of today's cars haven't caught up to the standards set by Citroën in 1955.

3. Toyota Prius. Some very innovative engineering created a car that has the potential to get exception mpg without being a compact or sub-compact. It also showed many people that an electric motor and battery can be reliable in a car.

4. Hummer H1. A vehicle that doesn't break down in difficult conditions such as mine sites. The drive train allows greater control in difficult situations. The wide stance allows heavy trailers to be pulled safely. (Too bad GM ruined it.)

5. Telsa Model S. The first electric car that's a real car (which just happens to be electric).

 

[smorgasbord]

I wrote:

I understand people who think Tesla's drivetrain is so great, it doesn't matter if much of the rest of the car is sub-par.

First of all, to me that sounds like an insult designed to provoke negativity in the first place.

That was not my intention. As a Roadster lover and owner, I have an appreciation for how Tesla's drivetrain overcomes deficiencies in other areas for many people (not my wife, for instance). For me, Roadster's acceleration, looks, size, and being a convertible compensate for the too-high center of gravity, ingress/egress difficulties, worst Nav/Radio unit in the world (Alpine), etc.

What's ironic is that I thought Model S would be the same, and we ended up with a fun little mini-thread about Roadster's foibles. Roadster has character, and I'm very willing to live with the cons of that character. Not so (much) with Model S.

But before I say more, I have to ask: When you say "drivetrain", does that include handling, suspension, noise/vibration/harshness, crash test ratings and aerodynamics?

No, not any of those.

But, do you really to hear from me how striving for high crash test ratings (an artificial measurement) is reportedly what's responsible for no door pockets and no adjustable headrests, not to mention the sunroof prison bar? Or how styling for the Aero gods hurts looks, visibility out the rear window, and most notably - headroom?

Yeah, I guess not.

 

[rcc]

I wrote:

But, do you really to hear from me how striving for high crash test ratings (an artificial measurement) is reportedly what's responsible for no door pockets and no adjustable headrests, not to mention the sunroof prison bar? Or how styling for the Aero gods hurts looks, visibility out the rear window, and most notably - headroom?

Yeah, I guess not.

Let's be fair here. Roll bar up top. Rails in the doors. I call those safety measures, not crash test result enhancers and I'm glad to have them. And none of the three Volvo's my wife has owned has had adjustable headrests either. Volvo claims that's for better whiplash protection.

 

[vfx]

One of the (totally unfounded) arguements against EVs is they are not as safe. Obvious fear of the unknown and made up or extended accusations from actual golf cart EVs by those that do not want the new electric drivetrain to succeed.

Elon's counter is to make a class leading safe car to squash those claims like a bug. If a few driving amenities go away for awhile then the larger movement is served.

 

[smorgasbord]

Let's be fair here. Roll bar up top. Rails in the doors. I call those safety measures, not crash test result enhancers and I'm glad to have them. And none of the three Volvo's my wife has owned has had adjustable headrests either. Volvo claims that's for better whiplash protection.

Let's look at these two:

1) Having to put a big thick bar across the sunroof means you made the sunroof too big or weren't willing to take the weight penalty for reinforcing the rest of the top. So, we're paying for glass we can't see through. Better to have made the sunroof the right size, save some money, and while you're at it, have the glass slide into the roof to improve aerodynamics when open. I think Model S is the only Premium Sedan to have its sunroof slide up and over the top, completely exposed and causing more wind noise and a reduction in aerodynamics. It's cheap looking.

Instead Tesla apparently felt that being able to claim that "the entire roof is constructed from lightweight safety glass" and that "it opens wider than any other sedan's panoramic roof" was worth it, even though we can't actually see through most of the glass, and even though a wide opening with a prison bar isn't really a single opening. These are marketing claims that have no actual benefit for us owners.

2) Volvo's better whiplash claims are nonsense. The deal is that if the headrests are adjustable, they're set to the worst possible position for the official crash test. So, by making them non-adjustable they can be fixed to optimize for the size of the crash test dummies. Which, unfortunately, is probably not the optimum size nor comfort position for many of us real people.

Tesla apparently felt that being able to claim high crash ratings was worth it, even though real life comfort is sacrificed. Since we're all smart and adjust our headrests appropriately, there is no actual safety benefit for us.

 

[Zythryn]

In my opinion, yes, the Model S is the best car in the world.
I have been driving it for two weeks now and I have never driven or even sat in a better car.

Now, the best in the world is very subjective. Some would say mine can't be the best in the world because it isn't Blue, or Green, or Black. Sure there are details some people will like over others and yes, a car can always be improved.

But as a package, in my mind, this is the best car in the world at ANY price point. I can't wait to buy another!

- - - Updated - - -

...So, by making them non-adjustable they can be fixed to optimize for the size of the crash test dummies. Which, unfortunately, is probably not the optimum size nor comfort position for many of us real people.

Tesla apparently felt that being able to claim high crash ratings was worth it, even though real life comfort is sacrificed. Since we're all smart and adjust our headrests appropriately, there is no actual safety benefit for us.

If we are all smart and can adjust our headsets appropriately, and Tesla and Volvo have 'locked' the headrests in the most optimal safety position, would we not all adjust the headrests to be in the safest position?

 

[Norbert]

Roadster has character, and I'm very willing to live with the cons of that character. Not so (much) with Model S.

Are you sure you really want to buy one? Doesn't sound like it to me. More like a bad story waiting to happen.

 

[smorgasbord]

If we are all smart and can adjust our headsets appropriately, and Tesla and Volvo have 'locked' the headrests in the most optimal safety position, would we not all adjust the headrests to be in the safest position?

Safest position varies with each person's dimensions. Someone who's 5'2" has a different optimal safety position than someone who's 6'4"

- - - Updated - - -

Are you sure you really want to buy one?

Clearly, I'm not sure. There's a thread here about that.

Our current other car needs thousands of dollars of work if we're going to keep it, and even then it probably will start to be somewhat of a money pit. Threads like this remind me I need to check out the new Audi S6 in person.

If we end up not liking our fully-loaded Model S, I think we can probably sell it for at least as much as we paid. That would be sad, because it would mean we wouldn't be going all-electric for a long time. None of Tesla's new models (X, Gen-III, new Sports car) are what we want, and none of the other car companies are moving anywhere near fast enough. Maybe Model S v2 would be better, but I bet it would still be too wide on the outside and too cramped on the inside, which actually are my main issues.

 

[vfx]

... Maybe Model S v2 would be better, but I bet it would still be too wide on the outside and too cramped on the inside, which actually are my main issues.

So a Fisker is out?