Best energy provider for EVs

[Fellsteruk]

hi all

I’m currently with Brisitah Gas and just wondering if you’ve switched to better “cheaper” providers who work better for EV owners.

I’m hoping to make most of charges at work for free but want to make sure I can charge at home cheaply.

 

[hileyms]

I am with Iresa. They are cheaper, I am on an Eco7 tariff Elecrtric only (10.92p per kw and 7.72p per kw). I have had no problem with they in the 1 year and 3 months that I have been with them but who knows if they are better.I live in South Wales where rates may be different.

 

[WannabeOwner]

“cheaper” providers who work better for EV owners.

I charge at work. its a "Free Perk" and no benefit in kind tax.

But other than that, yeah Economy-7 tarrif for overnight charging (I do have to charge at home on occasions, and at weekends ...)

 

[tonyj01]

I also changed my supply to Economy 7 a couple of years ago. Prices have risen, but the first year the night rate was 4p per unit!

Now paying 6p [night rate] with Bristol Energy on a fixed 12 month contract, I think this will rise again on renewal in the summer.

Another method for reducing costs [at some capital expense! ], if you have solar panels, is to use a Zappi charger during the day, which matches the output from the panels, eg 2.1kW from the sun, it puts 2.1kW into the car.

Regards,

Tony

 

[thegruf]

I use Bulb energy. 100% renewable tariff

(I used to use OVO but cannot recommend them as they are now uncompetitive and sneakily increased tariff on me and were exceptionally rude and difficult when I arranged to switch away from them)

With UK electricity generation at averaging a poor 292gm CO2/KWH, using a 100% reenewable tariff seems a cost effective way to significantly further reduce carbon footprint.

Probably go up once they get enough marketshare, but for now very competitive and have been excellent to deal with.

 

[DJP31]

I’m hoping to make most of charges at work for free but want to make sure I can charge at home cheaply.

Economy 7 is generally advantageous for EV’s who charge at night. However, the day rate is considerably more expensive, and if you are expecting to do most of your charging at work then may well end up more expensive than a ‘standard’ day/night rate.

 

[cezdoc]

hi all

I’m currently with Brisitah Gas and just wondering if you’ve switched to better “cheaper” providers who work better for EV owners.

I’m hoping to make most of charges at work for free but want to make sure I can charge at home cheaply.

I would absolutely recommend switching electricity provider, and keep checking prices at least annually. Compared with something like car insurance it's very quick and simple, all you need is an estimate of your annual consumption and your postcode, so I find it's well worth the 30 minutes or so it takes to do a thorough comparison. I prefer using the MoneySavingExpert (MSE) comparison site but there are plenty of others to choose from.

It _really_ helps if you keep your own log of, say, monthly meter readings and cross-check against actual bills. A lot of complaints about providers seem to be related to unexpected bills based on estimates. I find if you keep track of consumption and billing you can head off a lot of this trouble early (plus you have a much better basis for comparing prices/working out if E7 is beneficial, etc.).

Since UK electricity prices vary by region you'll need to check prices for yourself. I'm in North Scotland and suffer from higher transportation costs. Some providers, e.g. Ecotricity, have never been competitive for me (I've monitored them for about 10 years). I've also never come across ultra-low night time tariffs (cheapest on the market for me right now is Bulb's 7.8p night rate) but folk further south seem to pick up good deals from time to time.

Since owning my MS I've been with M&S (part of SSE), GB Energy (who went bust), Tonik and now Outfox The Market. The GB Energy experience proved that it doesn't matter if your supplier goes bust: the lights stay on, another provider takes on the customers (Coop in their case: they kindly honoured GB's cheap fixed tariff and when it expired I just switched again as there were cheaper deals on the market). When you switch you don't even need to speak to your existing provider - the new company handles it all for you. It is worth checking that the old company calculates the final bill correctly and refunds you if required though.

You can go for cheap as possible but I'd recommend looking for a 100% renewable supplier - in my case most of the cheapest deals were renewable tariffs in any case. Top picks for me were Outfox, Iresa, Pure Planet. Tonik are still near the top but have now been undercut. They were really helpful on the phone and have some interesting plans regarding smart metering and home battery storage + solar PV, so no complaints on that front. Iresa have had a bit of negative feedback on MSE which put me off them. I'm a bit wary of suppliers that offer both renewable and non-renewable tariffs - they don't get penalised for making the non-renewable mix dirtier in order to service more renewable customers. 100% renewable suppliers have to ensure they source sufficient renewable energy for all their customers - they can't "borrow" a bit from the non-renewable tariffs if they're running short. But any renewable tariff choice increases market demand and should end up with more investment helping the make the UK energy mix cleaner.

Regarding Economy 7/flat rate, in my case (approx 40% night time use) there is very little difference between the best day/night deals and single rate deals, so I've stayed with single rate: it doesn't seem to be worth the hassle of avoiding peak time usage and getting a different meter fitted.

The following providers have tailored EV deals: Ecotricity, Good Energy, OVO (there may be others I've missed). Octopus have just launched an innovative tariff ("Agile") which varies every 30 minutes: potentially useful if you can postpone EV charging a day or two to take advantage of cheap overnight/mid-afternoon electricity when there is plenty of renewable generation.

HTH

 

[WannabeOwner]

the day rate is considerably more expensive

Is it that much more? I thought it was 10% more, or less. I think it depends a bit on whether folk are at work during the day, and if they have Solar - such that they don't need much / any Grid during daylight hours for, say, 9 months of the year.

We used to put all White goods on the timer to use E7 ... then got Solar Panels and used White goods during sunny periods instead and now back using them whenever, as either on Solar during the day, or E7 along with the Car at night.

So some stuff on timers might make the difference in higher-price tariffs for day use? Although I haven't done any actual maths ...

helps if you keep your own log of, say, monthly meter readings

FWIW I log all my meters (Electricity, Solar, Water and, when we had it, Oil tank) weekly. I want to know if a week was particularly high for some reason - e.g. the Mains Water has sprung a leak, or someone has left an convector heater on in the East Wing [... I jest!]. When a bill with a price update arrives I know what the meter reading was at the time and can get it adjusted if it is not in my favour.

Octopus have just launched an innovative tariff ("Agile") which varies every 30 minutes

Sounds like that would play well with PowerWall ... but (unless I am mistaken) doesn't seem that PowerWall can do charge-when-cheap and discharge (i.e. isolate grid) when Dear ... but that firmware update is coming (although Musk-time ... its "been coming" for quite some time)

 

[DJP31]

Is it that much more? I thought it was 10% more, or less.

I'm with Scottish Power and day rate is 13.267p per kW and night is 5.596p. Both pre VAT and finishing some time in March when I think I'm heading to Bulb. The differential is still about the same though.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Sorry, think my typing has misled you compared to what my brain was intending my hands to say !

If someone has it to hand I'd be very interested to see prices for both the lowest Day/Night tariff, and the lowest day-only tariff, to compare the difference. My expectation was that the Day price, of the Day/Night tariff would be about 10% more than the best day-only tariff

 

[Mark77a]

Green energy Tide > Take control and save money – smart meter time of day | Green Energy UK

helps us AND helps the grid

Elect: 24p per day

Weekday
23:00–06:00 unit/kWh 4.99p
06:00–16:00 unit/kWh 11.99p
16:00–19:00 unit/kWh 24.99p
19:00–23:00 unit/kWh 11.99p

Weekend
23:00–06:00 unit/kWh 4.99p
06:00–23:00 unit/kWh 11.99p

Gas 25p per day
Rate 3.59p per kWh

 

[DJP31]

Sorry, think my typing has misled you compared to what my brain was intending my hands to say !

If someone has it to hand I'd be very interested to see prices for both the lowest Day/Night tariff, and the lowest day-only tariff, to compare the difference. My expectation was that the Day price, of the Day/Night tariff would be about 10% more than the best day-only tariff

I’m with you now. I haven’t looked at the market in depth but a quick check of Bulb’s
rates and you are correct. Day 14.77 & Night 6.58, compared to Day only of 13.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Day 14.77 & Night 6.58, compared to Day only of 13

If my maths are right that needs a little over 20% overall usage at Night-rate to break even.

7-hours a night is 30%-ish of the day, so all constant-loads achieve that.

With Solar PV then daytime usage should be free about 75%?? of the year. Longer hours in Summer of course, so for a home that is empty during the day that spare is probably being nearly 100% exported at only a 50% "assumed" rate. I export nothing, but my power company assumes I export 50% (for me: PV is metered, export is unmetered) and gives me rebate accordingly ...

... so the question then is whether the evening (and morning) usage, particularly in Winter, when there is no / little Solar PV offset, matches the benefit of overnight usage. Moving some devices to timed-use, overnight (EV car charging obviously, but dishwasher etc. too) will help ... pocket & planet We have electric cooker, so more usage than, say, a house with gas cooker.

If the Car can often/always charge overnight then I suspect that makes it a no-brainer.

The Ofgem site says that average usage is 58% : 42% (Day/Off-peak), which isn't (yet) going to include significant EV charging data and is far more E7-friendly than my 80%:20% break-even cutoff calculation, .

I only took the first figure I found in Google, but that was "The average UK electricity consumption for houses, with gas for heating, is 3,300 kWh(units) a year".

I make that about 9kW hours per day, and regardless of the day:night split if the car does about 30 miles a day @ 300 Wh/mi that's another 9kW hours per day ... so should be a no-brainer to charge using E7

 

[DJP31]

The Ofgem site says that average usage is 58% : 42% (Day/Off-peak), which isn't (yet) going to include significant EV charging data and is far more E7-friendly than my 80%:20% break-even cutoff calculation, .

My last 12 months usage is 5179 kWh Day and 6083 kWh Night, and only 10 months of that include Tesla ownership. Dishwasher and washing machine always on overnight, but often during the day too. with grown up daughters now flown the nest that will reduce further. E7 clearly a no brainer for me, I don't have solar so can't add anything to that discussion.

 

[WannabeOwner]

E7 clearly a no brainer for me,

I don't have solar so can't add anything to that discussion.

Could you? or is there some restriction on your property?

Insulation? Cheapest form of energy-cost-saving. We decided that improving our building to full Passive House standards was just not doable, even if we were totally unrealistically "generous" financially, so we built a Passive House extension instead. That contains Kitchen-Diner, Snug and master & family bedrooms upstairs, and needs close to no heat input in Winter. In fact we run it at a toasty temperature, because we already had central heating [infrastructure] for the main part of the house and it only needs the smell of an oil rag ... but even though we have increased the foot-print of the building by 40%, and we heat the Passive House extension to shirt-sleeves temperature, our overall winter fuel bill has fallen by 50%. We run the main part of the house cooler, because we don't have to sit in it, except when entertaining (and I have always preferred to do that in the Summer when we can sit outside ... so that is "not much", and we have enough room in the kitchen for dinner guests).

Passive House brings lovely even temperature, no draughts - neither poor fitting windows / trickle vents, nor convection currents - no corners of rooms which get no air flow - and then grow mould / whatever - and no winter coughs & colds anymore, a benefit of Passive House even-temperature and mechanical-ventilation that I wasn't aware of when we started down that route.

We have both Solar PV and Solar Hot Water. We are maxed out on Solar PV for single-phase, but I plan to add more, exclusively married with Power Wall, just as soon as the PowerWall Firmware has the time-of-use type controls that I want. (I ain't buy Elon's "Promise" of when Future Features might actually arrive any longer ...)

We heat House & Pool with logs now. Used to have a pair of Oil burning boilers (no mains gas here). If anyone is interested, and wants to come and have a look, you'd be very welcome. Just drop me a PM.

 

[DJP31]

@WannabeOwner that sounds like quite a set up. The economics are such that I’d never recoup the financial outlay to make solar worth considering.

 

[WannabeOwner]

The economics are such that I’d never recoup the financial outlay to make solar worth considering.

You could consider:

Install solar as part of your charitable giving for the year / decade. No business of mine whether you make charitable donations, or not, but I have done some of my "green" stuff on the basis that it comes out of my "giving" pot, rather than needing a payback.

My other justification is being able to afford my lifestyle in my old age ... so reducing running costs insulates me, somewhat, from price rises in future. That's not much cop if you are planning to move ... I'm planning to stay put!

We replaced 2x Oil Boilers with Log Burning boiler. The forestry tree-trunks delivery I now have once a year cost me 1/8th of the equivalent oil ... but they need Cutting and Carting, hopefully I'll be able to do that in my old age! and anyway, it "warms you twice" Also no use if you live on an 8th floor flat !!

 

[WannabeOwner]

P.S. one downside for me, so my wife tells me, is that we don't get many dinner invitations because I harangue my Ranger Rover Driving hosts and fellow guests for their lack of effort in showing some leadership in the Eco field (which they can clearly easily afford ...) ... whilst they wait, sitting on their hands, for yet another wealthy-landowner-handout from their mates in Government. Ho!Hum!

 

[paso904]

... We decided that improving our building to full Passive House standards was just not doable, even if we were totally unrealistically "generous" financially, so we built a Passive House extension instead. That contains Kitchen-Diner, Snug and master & family bedrooms upstairs, and needs close to no heat input in Winter. In fact we run it at a toasty temperature, because we already had central heating [infrastructure] for the main part of the house and it only needs the smell of an oil rag ... but even though we have increased the foot-print of the building by 40%, and we heat the Passive House extension to shirt-sleeves temperature, our overall winter fuel bill has fallen by 50%. We run the main part of the house cooler, because we don't have to sit in it, except when entertaining (and I have always preferred to do that in the Summer when we can sit outside ... so that is "not much", and we have enough room in the kitchen for dinner guests).

Passive House brings lovely even temperature, no draughts - neither poor fitting windows / trickle vents, nor convection currents - no corners of rooms which get no air flow - and then grow mould / whatever - and no winter coughs & colds anymore, a benefit of Passive House even-temperature and mechanical-ventilation that I wasn't aware of when we started down that route.

If anyone is interested, and wants to come and have a look, you'd be very welcome. Just drop me a PM.

My wife and I would love to live in a Passive House. I'm not sure if we ever will but we have taken some steps in that direction with our current lifestyle and home. Both our cars are fully electric and just after Christmas we had a 6 kWp solar PV system installed with a Powerwall 2. I fully accept that if you looked at it from an accounting point of view then the numbers can be difficult to justify but here is my take on it:

1. From a purely financial point of view, there is a modest return on equity far in excess of cash savings rates and about the same return on blue-chip equities. Such ROI expectations are not often applied when a new kitchen or bathroom are fitted.
2. We have improved our home in the sense that for most of the year, it will be generating it's own electricity.
3. We don't have to think quite so much about electricity costs and changing supplier.
4. Apart from driving a Tesla, there are few things more pleasing than seeing our Powerwall 2 at 100% from our panels with the surplus electricity going into the Tesla! (this has already happened twice last month).

I have sent you a PM.

 

[WannabeOwner]

My wife and I would love to live in a Passive House

Nightmare as a retro-fit Straightforward as a New Build - I think the conventional wisdom is that it adds 7% capital cost to New Build, but no boiler, no boiler maintenance, no occasional replacement boiler cost, negligible heating costs

Air Quality is very good of course, and that (i.e. mechanical ventilation with heat recovery) means even temperature, no damp corners, no moulds, so apparent health benefits. viz. Wife and I have had no winter colds / coughs in the 4 years (since we built), whereas prior to that I have always had a Winter cough which has taken me many weeks to shake off.

House was coldest last night that I can remember. It dropped from 1C overnight ... I suppose compared to a normal house with < -5C outside, and a moderately strong East wind, that's "not very much" !! Of course at these, rare-for-UK, temperatures we do have to supply some heat, but with heat loss at around 1-2C per day its not a lot of top-up, and the rest of the Winter we usually need none (although in a huge house the ratio of waste-heat, from cooking etc., is obviously proportionately less than in a small house)

I'm keen to become self sufficient in Electricity. Bit like Elon's Megachargers for Semi Trucks where he is planning to charge $0.07 per kWh for a guaranteed period ... I too would like to have a fixed rate for my Electricity price into retirement and until I shuffle off ...