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Best EV for Saudi Arabia

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by rolosrevenge, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    So my Saudi professor friend and I finally got a big research grant funded to study aspects of EV charging and integration. Part of the money in this massive Saudi government funded proposal is to buy two EVs and ship them there. You read that right, I'm going to use Saudi oil money is going to purchase EVs, ship them there, and study them. Irony much? Yes. We originally planned on Leafs when we wrote the proposal, but without active battery temperature management, they'll die in the 120 F heat that they get in Dhahran. Tesla's are sadly too expensive for the budget, since we want two. So I was thinking Ford Focus Electric. Does anyone else have any ideas?
     
  2. meloccom

    meloccom Moderator Aus/NZ

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    Is the BMW i3 too expensive?
     
  3. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

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    e-Golf is quite an accomplished car. Can be sourced rather cheaply in Europe.

    Another pretty nice option would be the Kia Soul EV - it's a very nice EV but not sure about the thermal management.
     
  4. Ames

    Ames Member

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    Get a certified pre-owned Tesla. I strongly recommend you get a 2012 or 2013 85 kwh battery for Saudi and you definitely need a Tesla. You can cross the border to Jordan to assess their superchargers.
     
  5. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    Can't you apply for more money so you can get two Model S's? This is Saudi Arabia after all(!)...

    Isn't the The Model S the only current tech that's really worth evaluating?
     
  6. GSP

    GSP Member

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    The BMW i3 would be great since it has cooling directly by expansion of the A/C refrigerant, instead of by cooled liquid (water ethylene glycol). This is less expensive, lighter weight, and safer than liquid cooling, with no chance of a coolant leak shorting out the cells. The Chevy Bolt will also use direct expansion to cool it's battery.

    I would not be surprised to see all EVs move to this method in the future, so it would be perfect for study in Saudi Arabia.

    GSP
     
  7. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    Not from Dharhan, it's on the eastern coast on the Gulf of Arabia. It also is the headquarters of Aramco.

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    The i-3 starts at $42,000 the Focus Electric at $29,000 and CPO Model S at around $50,000. Model S is clearly out, though maybe we can get one i-3 and one Focus Electric or an E Golf. Cars are actually cheaper to buy in the US and ship there than to buy in Europe.

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    Well we have a pretty large equipment budget, but we're trying to spend a lot of it on lab equipment to build the facilities. The evaluation isn't on the car itself per se, but rather how car charging can impact the grid and how to mitigate it. I'm liking the idea, though, of getting two different ones with different thermal management techniques to evaluate how they hold up in such extreme temperatures.
     
  8. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #8 SwedishAdvocate, Dec 16, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2015
    I really have no idea how these things work, so these are just wild-ass guesses:


    Sweden recently ‘kind of’ shafted Saudi Arabia on an arms factory:

    Sweden cancels military deal after Saudi human rights snub | FINANCIAL TIMES

    Project Simoom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Therefore, maybe some Swedish Research Foundation would be willing to pitch in as some sort of compensation[SUP]1[/SUP]…

    Here’s the biggest I know of (The family behind the weapons manufacturer SAAB Group… (I think)):

    KNUT AND ALICE WALLENBERG FOUNDATION


    Here’s another one (The family behind IKEA…):

    In English - The Kamprad Family Foundation


    Or maybe a grant for EV research from some Swedes would be viewed by the Saudis as further insult?...


    Or maybe the Gates Foundation or Zuckerberg (Facebook) could spare some $$$?


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    EDIT:

    [SUP]1[/SUP]And maybe they could pitch in fast if someone in Saudi Arabia could 'pull some kind of strings'. As I understand it the Swedish-Saudi relations might still be a little – should we say – butt hurt... :rolleyes:
     
  9. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Take a close look at the specifications before the testing. Heat is bad for batteries.
     
  10. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Nailed it! You'll find the value of the Model S will supersede the need for anything else. There are too many positives of fast charging, available kWh's (rated range) and unparalleled BMS thermal management.

    Really should consider CPO
     
  11. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    That's why I need one with active thermal management. When we wrote the proposal, the budget was for two Leafs, but it was before the massive battery degradation in Arizona came out. Now that we're fully funded, I know a leaf won't work, but if we want two cars for testing, they've got to cost around 30k each. I know Tesla has the best, but where can you get a CPO Model S for 30k? Plus I'm not sure how we'd get it serviced if something went wrong. There are Ford and VW service centers there, nothing from Tesla.

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    I seriously doubt any of them would just give some researchers more money so they could buy a Tesla over another electric car in an effort to save the Saudis money. If we're wishing, why not ask Elon to give me a brand new P90DL so we can show all of the rich oil sheiks what they should be driving.
     
  12. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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  13. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    This one is recent and still says liquid cooled battery.

    https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/products/hybrids---evs/focus-electric/2016-focus-electric.html
     
  14. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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  15. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    VW had e-Golf prototypes with liquid cooling, but they axed it from the production version. I would expect that fast charging would be severely curtailed in desert heat. A European owner already showed that highway driving and repeated fast charging for a full day resulted in severely curtailed charging rate and even reduced driving power. That was in moderate Northern European temperatures. I have an e-Golf and really like it, but I would not recommend it for a Saudi deployment.
     
  16. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Member

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    That is the million dollar question many of us plebes are asking. ;)
     
  17. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    You mean it's the thirty thousand dollar question.
     
  18. nwdiver

    nwdiver Active Member

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    What's the range requirements? Perhaps you could hack the LEAF BMS and make it think ~70% SOC is 100% SOC... that might help it survive the heat a bit... I've also heard that the new batteries are much more resilient to heat than the 1st generation...
     
  19. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    No one threw out this suggestion, but wouldn't the Spark EV also qualify since it is also liquid cooled?

    The RAV4 EV or B-Class electric would be closest to a Tesla, but then the servicing issue will be similar (RAV4 EV can't be serviced without Tesla help, B-Class might be similar).
     
  20. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    Range is secondary, they need to be able to drive around the Dharhan area. From King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals to the airport and back, occasional trips to Bahrain. We aren't going to be doing any BMS tinkering, especially since that could change its charging behavior which is really what we care about.

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    I'll look into that.
     

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