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Best M3 All-season tire - Crossclimate2?

The CC+ was already highly rated, but Tirerack rates the CC2 as superior to both the CC+ and A/S4 in every way.

I ordered the CC2 from America's Auto - $792 for four tires minus $165 instant warranty credit on the MXV4 I'm replacing. Seems like the best price since even when Costco runs a sale, you only get $150 off.

There is another TMC thread discussing range specifically. Anecdotally, the CC+ incurs a range hit of 5% after the first 3000 miles. If the range loss is around 5%, that's not a big deal for me.

Starting this thread to get your opinions (before I install these CC2 tires).



Michelin comparison.PNG
 
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Just saw this. - The America's Tire manager offered the credit since we were replacing my stock MXV4 before the rated warranty length.

Also, I see this tire has the snowflake icon. Does this mean that these tires are equivalent to snow tires and can drive without chains in California? (Looking at making one last trip to Mammoth next weekend!)
 

dfwatt

Best Car Ever
Sep 24, 2018
3,464
5,651
FL
The CC+ was already highly rated, but Tirerack rates the CC2 as superior to both the CC+ and A/S4 in every way.

I ordered the CC2 from America's Auto - $792 for four tires minus $165 instant warranty credit on the MXV4 I'm replacing. Seems like the best price since even when Costco runs a sale, you only get $150 off.

There is another TMC thread discussing range specifically. Anecdotally, the CC+ incurs a range hit of 5% after the first 3000 miles. If the range loss is around 5%, that's not a big deal for me.

Starting this thread to get your opinions (before I install these CC2 tires).



View attachment 647721
This might be an excellent example of how Mark Twain came up with the aphorism "there are lies, damnable lies, and then there are statistics."

While I have high confidence in the basic integrity of Tire Rack polling data and overall I think it's pretty trustworthy, the problem is you are comparing two radically different types of tires that are being rated by two very different audiences. The Cross Climate is a great tire but it is the in the Grand Touring class, meaning folks looking for a really nice ride and good efficiency probably will be very pleased with it and it handles really well for a tire in that class. The Pilot Sport 4 all season on the other hand is in the ultra-high-performance all-season category.

A real tip off about the differences in these tires is when you look at the cross climate sizes available you will see there is only one instance of a 40 series Tire, and no 35 or 30 series tires are available at all. On the other hand the listing for the Pilot Sport 4 all season is littered with ultra-high-performance aspect ratios and sizes. If you want the best handling, there simply is really no comparison. The reason why the numbers don't show that is again because of the different audiences doing the rating. If you follow the link, you'll see how this tire (the Pilot Sport 4 all season) is rated relative to its peer group competition. As fine a tire as the crossclimate is it's just not in this peer group. And that's for a good reason. That said, in its peer group, the crossclimate excels just about to the same degree as the Pilot Sport All Season. They're just really different peer groups and if you don't understand that you might make the wrong choice.
 
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This might be an excellent example of how Mark Twain came up with the aphorism "there are lies, damnable lies, and then there are statistics."

While I have high confidence in the basic integrity of Tire Rack polling data and overall I think it's pretty trustworthy, the problem is you are comparing two radically different types of tires that are being rated by two very different audiences. The Cross Climate is a great tire but it is the in the Grand Touring class, meaning folks looking for a really nice ride and good efficiency probably will be very pleased with it and it handles really well for a tire in that class. The Pilot Sport 4 all season on the other hand is in the ultra-high-performance all-season category.

A real tip off about the differences in these tires is when you look at the cross climate sizes available you will see there is only one instance of a 40 series Tire, and no 35 or 30 series tires are available at all. On the other hand the listing for the Pilot Sport 4 all season is littered with ultra-high-performance aspect ratios and sizes. If you want the best handling, there simply is really no comparison. The reason why the numbers don't show that is again because of the different audiences doing the rating. If you follow the link, you'll see how this tire (the Pilot Sport 4 all season) is rated relative to its peer group competition. As fine a tire as the crossclimate is it's just not in this peer group. And that's for a good reason. That said, in its peer group, the crossclimate excels just about to the same degree as the Pilot Sport All Season. They're just really different peer groups and if you don't understand that you might make the wrong choice.
Absolutely agree with dfwatt. Compare apples to apples. One way to do that better than subjective ratings within a category is to compare the Tire Rack tire test result raw numbers. You’ll find:

.................. CC2 vs. PSAS4
Slalom Dry s. 5.25 vs. 5.09
Slalom Wet s. 5.91 vs. 5.61
Lap Time Dry s. 31.27 vs. 30.61
Lap Time Wet s. 36.41 vs. 34.41
Stop 50-0 Dry ft. 87.50 vs. 81.50
Stop 50-0 Wet ft. 121.80 vs.105.00
Cornering Dry g. 0.89 vs. 0.93
Cornering Wet g. 0.65 vs. 0.76

Conclusion: CC2 is a fine Grand Touring AS tire but PS4SS is a fine High Performance AS tire. CC probably better in the snow. When pushed, particularly on wet roads, the PS4AS will grip and stop considerably better than the CC2, where there are large differences. Waiting to see how the upcoming Michelin Pilot Sport EV tires compare.
 
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I looked into these heavily and bought the Vredestein Quatrac Pro's. Amazing tires! The problem I've found with the cross climates and others like them is the V shaped tread pattern. The tire noise was ridiculous an EV at highway speeds. I've had the Vredestein's now for nearly 5 months and ended up buying a second set! I now have them in 18's and 20's. They are the most silent tires I've ever run (had Tesla's since 2012) and they handle amazing in every weather condition I've thrown at them. Snow, Rain, Sleet, Ice and dry. Driving in the Swiss Alps I've never had a "oh crap" moment. I know these are fairly new in the US, but they are well known in Europe. Have a quick search around the forums here and you'll see many others now running them on their cars. Also, Tire Rack has a pretty great review of them in the US. I find them even quieter than my summer P4S's!

 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
15,453
28,992
NC
Yeah- that's "customer survey" data.

It's highly unlikely there's many customers with direct experience of both the CC2 AND the Pilot Sport A/S4 given both are fairly new tires.

From the research I did on both based on objective testing results (from TR and others) my overall impression was this:

Both are very good tires.

The PS A/S4 is a better performing tire in everything but snow... it's fine in light snow, and pretty poor (comparably) if you get 'real' snow.

The CC2 is still pretty good, but a step behind in most measurable things outside of snow, but better in light snow, and significantly better in anything more than that.


Since I live someplace it gets below freezing moderately often at least a few months a year, but only snows rarely, and maybe once every 5-10 years is it anything more than light (and we have an SUV we'd drive if it did), the A/S4 was the better choice for me.
 
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birdsquared

Fan-man (too old to be a fanboi)
May 15, 2020
74
78
Burnaby, BC
Since I live someplace it gets below freezing moderately often at least a few months a year, but only snows rarely, and maybe once every 5-10 years is it anything more than light (and we have an SUV we'd drive if it did), the A/S4 was the better choice for me.
This, more than the amount of snow we get in southern B.C., is the main reason I went with the CC - I doubt any of those raw data tests were done in freezing temps, which dramatically impact most non-winter tire compounds.
 
After a lot of research and 2 months digging into data including LRRs...
My choices were down to these:
Michelin PSAS4: Best dry traction (2% better than DWS06+), great in snow....louder and harsher than other 2 choices.
Michelin CC2: Best snow traction, OK in every other category
Continental DWS06+: Really good dry, best in wet, really good snow performance....QUIET and comfortable for a ultra-high-performance tire

I went with the Continental DWS06+ (new for 2021). Reason was that it ALMOST has the dry performance of the Michelin PSAS4 but is far quieter and more comfortable. Even though it has no foam for noise insulation...it's QUIET....no louder than the Pirelli summer tires that my M3P came with. It also has about the same traction as the Pirelli PZeros which is to say very very good. I can't talk about efficiency yet as my set is only had 500 miles but so far my efficiency is BETTER than when I was running the Pirelli PZeros. To put some numbers to it...
Driving nicely I had 280wh/mi on the Pirelli P-Zeros in the summer (3000 miles).
I currently have 266wh/mi on the Continental DWS06+ (500 miles).....I expect it to go lower as the tires wear more though winter may impact that.
However, I also downsized to a fully-forged 20lbs 19 inch wheels (235/40/R19 Continental setup vs 235/35/R20 Pirelli PZero setup)

I would recommend the Michelin CC2 if you live in a place where you get TONS of snow and plowing is iffy. The Michelin PSAS4 and DWS06+ are quite good at snow and feel like a summer tire when it's dry. The Michelin CC2 is better at snow but sacrifices that summer tire feel when it's dry. The compromise isn't worth it to me unless you have a harsh winter. Winter here in Colorado is mostly warm with the occasional blizzard so all-season tires EXCEL in it. :)
 
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dfwatt

Best Car Ever
Sep 24, 2018
3,464
5,651
FL
The CC+ was already highly rated, but Tirerack rates the CC2 as superior to both the CC+ and A/S4 in every way.

I ordered the CC2 from America's Auto - $792 for four tires minus $165 instant warranty credit on the MXV4 I'm replacing. Seems like the best price since even when Costco runs a sale, you only get $150 off.

There is another TMC thread discussing range specifically. Anecdotally, the CC+ incurs a range hit of 5% after the first 3000 miles. If the range loss is around 5%, that's not a big deal for me.

Starting this thread to get your opinions (before I install these CC2 tires).



View attachment 647721
It is nice of you to dig out that information and post it. But it should be posted with a caveat namely that these tires are in different classes and Tire Rack does all their rating within a particular class. This is not a small distinction. The Pilot Sport 4 All Season is in the Uber high-performance all-season group while the crossclimate is a touring Tire. Both tires are at the top of their respective groups but that does not mean that the head-to-head scores can really be compared. Therefore their equivalent scores on dry traction are very misleading. If you think that you're going to go out on a skid pad and get anything like the same performance from these two tires you're going to be sorely disappointed. There is a reason that the new mid-engine Corvette comes with the Pilot Sport All Season as standard equipment. It's a very high performance all-season tire– easily the best ever. You trade that against ride, noise, rolling resistance, and probably performance in snow relative to some other all season tires.

Indeed even in its class there might be a better riding alternative namely the Vredestein, also might be slightly better in snow then the Pilot Sport 4 all season but not quite as good in the dry – like someone once said it's all trade-offs:

www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHPAS
 
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I looked into these heavily and bought the Vredestein Quatrac Pro's. Amazing tires! The problem I've found with the cross climates and others like them is the V shaped tread pattern. The tire noise was ridiculous an EV at highway speeds. I've had the Vredestein's now for nearly 5 months and ended up buying a second set! I now have them in 18's and 20's. They are the most silent tires I've ever run (had Tesla's since 2012) and they handle amazing in every weather condition I've thrown at them. Snow, Rain, Sleet, Ice and dry. Driving in the Swiss Alps I've never had a "oh crap" moment. I know these are fairly new in the US, but they are well known in Europe. Have a quick search around the forums here and you'll see many others now running them on their cars. Also, Tire Rack has a pretty great review of them in the US. I find them even quieter than my summer P4S's!

Hey there. Was just wondering what your range loss was like with these tires? I am considering them and the cc2s for my m3 LR. Thanks!
 
I looked into these heavily and bought the Vredestein Quatrac Pro's. Amazing tires! The problem I've found with the cross climates and others like them is the V shaped tread pattern. The tire noise was ridiculous an EV at highway speeds. I've had the Vredestein's now for nearly 5 months and ended up buying a second set! I now have them in 18's and 20's. They are the most silent tires I've ever run (had Tesla's since 2012) and they handle amazing in every weather condition I've thrown at them. Snow, Rain, Sleet, Ice and dry. Driving in the Swiss Alps I've never had a "oh crap" moment. I know these are fairly new in the US, but they are well known in Europe. Have a quick search around the forums here and you'll see many others now running them on their cars. Also, Tire Rack has a pretty great review of them in the US. I find them even quieter than my summer P4S's!

Hi there. I was wondering what the range loss is like with these quadtracs? I was looking at these and the cc2s for my m3 LR. I also wonder if they are as easy to get replacements if I need a new tire. Thanks !
 

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