TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Best PG&E Rate Plan

Discussion in 'Model X: Battery & Charging' started by Oceanwolf, Sep 8, 2016.

?

What is your PG&E rate plan if you have both Solar and Tesla

  1. EV-A (Special Rate)

    16 vote(s)
    53.3%
  2. EV-B (Separate Meter)

    1 vote(s)
    3.3%
  3. ETOUA (Time of Use A - 3pm-8pm)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. ETOUB (Time of Use B- 4pm-9pm)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. E6 (Time of use - Old Customers)

    13 vote(s)
    43.3%
  6. E1 (Tiers for Monthly use)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Oceanwolf

    Oceanwolf Oceanwolf

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Morgan Hill, CA
    There are multiple rate plans that PG&E created if you fit into a specific category. For example, you can be on EV-A rate if you have a EV vehicle and charge in the middle of the night. It clearly the best plan to choose. Or if you have a solar system and you choose E6 (discontinued now- Time of use based) and you generate at peak hours and try to shift your use to night time. What is the best plan if you have both?

    http://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/understanding-rate-plans/understanding-rate-plans.page?
     
  2. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,316
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    I got a 9.8kWh solar system with a Powerwall installed last month. I was on the EV-A plan before and am still on it. I have always charged between 12-7AM and have continued to do so. That is what Tesla Energy recommended I do.
     
  3. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    4,775
    Location:
    North Bay, CA
    I have a 9.5kWh PV system and have EV-A. It's clearly a better choice for my climate as well. The thing to consider is how and when you use your electricity. For those inland, AC can really chew you up at over 40c/kWh on EV-A. But since I rarely run AC, and run my pool pump overnight, EV-A is better than the alternative plans.

    There are other threads on this with a lot of data, but to simplify, if you're a net producer during peak hours (2-9pm weekdays/3-7pm weekends) and a net consumer during late hours (11pm-7am), then EV-A is going to be your best choice.
     
  4. royewest

    royewest Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Berkeley
    I just switched to EV-A and will gather data for a month or two. I also have solar panels. I wrote to PG&E and still don't understand their response: anyone have a clear notion of how you get credited to power back to the grid in EV-A? Is it 1:1 to the cost if your were consuming at that time of day? Or is there a different rate for getting credit? Or is it just net use for that time period?
     
  5. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure this All Out

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,952
    Location:
    Northern California
    I loved my old E7 plan. Wish I still had it. The EVA is working OK if you don't mind turning your life upside down until they come up with the next crazy plan.

    I mean come on? 9 PM just to go to partial peak? And there is no accounting for electric heating/cooking like there used to be.
     
  6. Kbra

    Kbra Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Messages:
    220
    Location:
    California
    When you added solar, PG&E should have installed a different smart meter that does net metering. That will log power in and power out. If you have excess solar production at a moment of time that you don't use it will be fed to the grid at the rate it would have cost you to use at that time of day (peak, partial peak, off peak). You don't actually earn that in $ tho and that's why you don't want to size a system greater than your annual needs, at least for a cost benefit stand point.
     
  7. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    4,775
    Location:
    North Bay, CA
    I don't know. I already feel like I'm killing it with this plan, I don't need special concessions. Selling back at > 40c/kWh helps a lot with the part-peak 9-11pm timeframe. But you live in a place where AC is likely to be utilized more often, which is why I mentioned climate.

    I also have west-facing panels which synergize very well with the late shifted peak on EV-A.
     
  8. royewest

    royewest Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Berkeley
    I get that. The question I have is, if I'm generating (say) 4 or 8 kWh more than consumption during the day (net my advantage), when rates area high, how will that offset my much larger use of kWh at the dead of night to charge the car, at cheap consumption hours?
     
  9. Kbra

    Kbra Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Messages:
    220
    Location:
    California
    You will benefit. Say you produced 10kwh more than you used at a peak rate of say $0.40. That means you can use 40kwh at night with a rate of $0.10 and be at a wash.
     
  10. ohmman

    ohmman Maximum Plaid Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2014
    Messages:
    4,775
    Location:
    North Bay, CA
    Here is my annual true-up. Net user of ~2.6MWh, but ran a credit of $780 for the year. This is all due to being paid at the TOU rate while I generate.

    (Note that I think I misstated this in a previous thread, saying I only used 1MWh over the year and had a 1k credit. That appears to be more accurate for the previous year true-up, so my belated apologies.)
    Screen Shot 2016-09-08 at 10.04.48 PM.png
     
  11. JPP

    JPP Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    SF Bay area, CA
    I have a 16 kW SolarCity system under a PPA. On PG&Es EV-A plan. We use a ton (...10 tons) of AC in the summer months, so lots of peak power use at $0.40/kW. When we installed our system, SolarCity mantra was 'install enough solar to cover 70% of your needs and 90% of your bill'. The problem with 'going negative' with PG&E is that there are some hidden fixed fees. In 2014-2015, when we had only 1 S and I changed mostly at work, our true-up gave us about $300 back. In 2015-2016, with my wife's S charging at home (8000 miles annual) and paying the $0.10/kW night rate (so about $1.00 for 30 miles of driving), we are paying PG&E about $500. Still way better than before solar and 2 Ses.
     
  12. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure this All Out

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,952
    Location:
    Northern California
    I need to do some more tuning wrt solar. My big fears are:
    • PG&E can easily pull the plug (pun intended) on us by introducing sub metering for EV's (being piloted now) which would negate the EV plans. It would take some time to phase this in but if you are expecting a 20 year payback on your investment in solar etc, be wary. Your non EV consumption would be metered separately from the EV, so no trailing allowed.
    • Solar in general is a mixed bag for the IOUs. Right now they make a chunk of change on usage, even though that is not why they are in business. They will increasingly want (need) to move the costs from power consumption to infrastructure support. Again net metering will take a hit. The more solar that is produced the less they will want because their impact is on the infrastructure. Solar costs them more to operate. And we have not even heard from the generators like Calpine yet.
    So as I prepare to invest in more solar, I am doing it cautiously and conservatively. If my wife had her way we would put enough in to satisfy our total demand and back it up with Powerwalls. But as @ohmman points out in my area, that would be costly because of A/C and heat pumps in the winter.:eek:
     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,883
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    I am told that PG&E already has a proposal to limit the credit for "on Peak" production to go into effect around 2020. In other words If you have excess production at a peak period when say the rates are highest ($.58/ Kwh) you would be limited to your credit at say $ .10. CA PUC still need to approve this, but they have a history of giving PG&E about everything they have asked for.

    If this passes, I am going to seriously look at going "off grid" with my house.
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. Oceanwolf

    Oceanwolf Oceanwolf

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Morgan Hill, CA
    I have a 3.85Kwh Sunpower system. I installed it over the garage so I had limited real estate. The idea for me was to stay at Tier 1 as much as possible. it looks like I need to relook at my plan. These numbers do not have the car yet. I am lucky to have chargers at work, maybe I won't have much of an impact.

    upload_2016-9-9_14-51-10.png
     
  15. someTimesJoe

    someTimesJoe Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I'm on E6 and have a 4.35 kW SunPower system as well. With the new tiers that PG&E implemented, I creep into tier 2 now. Before that, I was able to stay in tier 1 without problems. It's been a hot summer and then added an i3 that we only charge at home in April. Don't have an X yet but 2 EV charges at home at off-peak times. With the X coming, I'm sure my true ups are going to be larger unless I add some additional panels. It was hard habit to get the family to shift chores to the evening or weekends.

    upload_2016-9-9_15-10-20.png
     
  16. Oceanwolf

    Oceanwolf Oceanwolf

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Morgan Hill, CA
    I hear you.
     
  17. Kbra

    Kbra Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Messages:
    220
    Location:
    California
    To a degree they should have that right. They dont necessarily need/want your power in the middle of the day. With the state demanding them have so much solar energy in the coming years, and they CAN NOT count your panels in that mix, they have too much feeding the grid with not enough users to take it. Solar and wind is causing a major grid change for utilities with its unreliable and intermittent production. It's gonna happen eventually, might as well go off the grid now if you're worried about it. They wont mind. PG&E doesn't make its money on you using power, just maintaining the infrastructure and assets.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,316
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    I hear you. That is something I think about long term as well. Several years from now, Powerwalls will be less expensive. I can make room in my garage (where my solar hardware and current Powerwall are located) to add a second Powerwall, and I have space on my roof to easily add up to 6 or more panels and boost my total system from around 10kWh to 12 or more if it looks like that will make sense. It would help to compensate for reduced solar during the winter months. And in the future I'm sure that there will be higher capacity inverters available than the current SolarEdge 7.3kW model, the best currently available for use with the Powerwall.

    Whatever PG&E does in the future based on it's own self-interest and a compliant CA PUC I am hopeful that I can get around it.
     
  19. Oceanwolf

    Oceanwolf Oceanwolf

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Morgan Hill, CA
    I understand that will be a business decision at the time. The reason that PG&E charges more at peak hours is due to the demand. If solar will be able to provide more production then the demand will be easier to be met and PG&E should reduce its price. It may not be a peak period anymore. It is hard to tell how it will play out. Best way is to go off grid by using power wall. 5 years from now, who knows.
     
  20. Merrill

    Merrill Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,092
    Location:
    Sonoma, California
    They have already reduced the peak per kWh going from E7 to E6, I'm not going to tell what I really think about our power companies probably could not be printed. If they take away net metering or reduce the cost of energy at peak then will have to look at storage, you can bet that once more people go off grid they will come up with some extra charge and tell you how great it is for everyone. My dream is that someone will take control of the CPUC and not let these monolopies run wild.
     

Share This Page