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Beta Testers for 6.0 - are they required to sign NDAs (&d not able to post features?)

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by Runs Kwh, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. Runs Kwh

    Runs Kwh Member

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    Someone posted on another thread that 6.0 was rolling out to beta testers this week. My question, are those beta testers under NDA? And as a result, prevented from posting new, improved features and functions up here?
     
  2. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    Yes, NDAs are required, and yes, they must keep quiet until the release.
     
  3. trigga71

    trigga71 Member

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    I want to be a beta tester, doing 288 (minimum) miles every day I think I would find issues. I already have many suggestions on changes, but don't we all.
     
  4. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    you drive at least 288 miles per day and you got a 60kW??? why did you not get the 85?
     
  5. HHHH

    HHHH Member

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    That's what I want to know!
     
  6. ACDriveMotor

    ACDriveMotor Member

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    Makes sense to me. He would still have to take a mid-day charge either way. And the 60 is cheaper. Note that he is an HPWC and SC-enabled 60, what I would call a super 60.
     
  7. Zextraterrestrial

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    That's pretty awesome use of a 60! I don't see why they wouldn't pick you? I would assume Tesla can see how much each car is doing and all? For factory tours I know they make you sign an NDA and either they said or it was written (forgot) something like you can talk about what you see 90 days(or 60 forgot that part too) after the tour.
     
  8. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    It makes sense until you consider the battery warranty implications. Battery Warranty gone in year 2 isn't something to take lightly.
     
  9. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    Exactly. And Tom's presentation at TMC Connect would seem to indicate the high cycle count will make that car particularly susceptible to pack degradation over time, which makes the loss of warranty even worse.

    Trigga, I'm sure Tom would love data on your usage, if you haven't already provided it: Plug In America
     
  10. ACDriveMotor

    ACDriveMotor Member

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    Yes, sorry forgot about warranty aspects of 60 vs. 85. And that average SOC duty cycles are going to be larger which will impact long-term battery lifecycle.
     
  11. gavine

    gavine Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast

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    He's not necessarily cycling the battery in any bad way. If he charges up to, let's say 180 miles at home (not a full charge) and then supercharges when he gets down to 30 to add another 150, that's a total of 330 miles of charge and he's only using 300ish so I see no problem with that cycle. He's not going from 100% down to 0% and back to 100% which is a full charge cycle of which the battery supposedly can handle 1,000's of cycles.
     
  12. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    I was merely pointing out Tom's findings from TMC Connect (can be seen here: http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/model-s/reports/Battery-Longevity-16x9.pdf). Essentially, this shows that the absolute number of cycles is the most important metric affecting battery degradation among the evaluated Li-Ion EVs, especially on the Model S, which isn't affected by climate. Of particular note is the graph around page 20 that shows the steeper curve of the 60 for a given number of miles, which is a factor of pack cycles and efficiency.

    In any case, the assertion given the data collected so far is that a 60 driven exactly as efficiently as an 85 for the exact same number of miles will suffer greater battery degradation as a percentage of initial capacity due to the increased number of cycles on its pack. So I merely pointed out that coupling this effect with the reduced warranty period of the smaller battery is particularly concerning for 60 owners driving lots of miles.

    It was a really interesting presentation. Check it out when the video gets posted.
     
  13. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    One thing to remember is that Tom's Model S survey is flawed. Most of the firmware revisions calculate rated range differently, and then there is the pack balance issue. Without presenting that information, that survey is very misleading.
     
  14. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    Beta Testers for 6.0 - are they required to sign NDAs (&d not able to post fe...

    That question came up, and is supposedly the reason firmware revision is one of the questions. Further, pack balancing supposedly occurs during a range charge, which is what the survey asks for.

    So I think everything needed to account for both of those situations is already in the data. User-reported data is always going to have a degree of inaccuracy associated. More data points certainly help, though short of getting access to the service menus, I think it's about as good as the community can do.
     
  15. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    While range charges are more accurate, it still takes a bunch of them in a row to bring the display back to where the true capacity is measured.
     
  16. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

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    One of the reasons why more data points help, but yes, as mentioned, Tesla doesn't give us all the info we need to be more accurate.
     
  17. trigga71

    trigga71 Member

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    The warranty is the only selling point of the 85 (for me), the extra range would have come in handy a few times but once the superchargers are fully rolled out its a none issue unless you go off the beaten path, but then again you can only go say 20-30 miles further out over a 60 since you have to get back, assuming your coming back that same route. I think the battery will last and hoping for a bigger than 85 battery option, I don’t see why not as the Model S and X will use the same battery for sure.


    I charge to about 187 miles, fluctuates as this morning I was at 190 miles. After highway speeds I arrive with around 28-30 miles left. Then charge at a public charger (slow at 18 miles) and end up around 177-185 (would be nice if a log could be kept) then highway speeds again and when I get home I charge up at 58ish mph. Im going on a limb here but it would be nice to have 2 "scheduled" charges, a minimum charge then by a certain time charge the rest of the way and have it ready when you need to leave. That way when you get home it charges to a set milage in case you need it (emergencies do happen) and then later on in the night/morning it'll charge to what you need for your daily trip. Honestly the Dual Chargers and HPWC are awesome and without them your wasting your time also help for reseal value as the tech. moves forward. I have used the Supercharges several times and they are great and build a strong community just as this site does.


    I will check out the Plug in America survey.
     
  18. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, I have thought about this as well. It would be useful to have an "everyday" charge schedule setting, start time and percentage of total capacity, and then be able to also schedule a "top up" charge that would complete just before you planned to leave. That way the car doesn't sit at max charge very long.

    When I need to max charge for a long trip, right now I do that two-stage charging routine manually. My EV electrical utility rate plan has the lowest rate from midnight to 7am. So for example, I set the car to charge to 80% starting at 0005 (5 after midnight). Then if I am planning on leaving home at 0730, when I wake up at 0600 I use the iPhone app to set the charge percentage to 100% and I start it charging and I look at the display to see what the estimated charge time is and then adjust it so it will finish charging shortly before I have to leave.

    But of course the car firmware could figure that out for me if it had a "top up" charge feature that told me that "based on starting from an 80% SOC it will take X minutes to charge to 100% so if you want to start driving at 0730 tomorrow I will start the 'top up' charge at 0642 and allow 15 minutes for load balancing. Okay?".

    Now that would be cool.
     
  19. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    How many miles have you accumulated so far?
     
  20. trigga71

    trigga71 Member

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    Exactly!!!


    @qwk I have 16,625 miles. I picked it up May 2nd 2014. I had my HPWC installed about a month after. Before then I was using Public chargers and a Supercharger thats about 10 miles out of the way on my route.
     

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