Between a Model Y and a Subaru Outback

[Pilot1226]

Hi all,

Long time lurker but first post here.

Long story short, I’m leasing a Subaru Forester. It was a necessary thing at the time, it replaced my Subaru Outback which was around 8 years old with nearly 100k miles. There were a lot of things that needed to get done at once (Big timing belt service, brakes, tires) so I chose to trade in, get a check for the value of the Outback, and put down $0 towards my lease on the Forester.

My lease ends January of 2022, which is a little over 19 months away. I could trade-in the lease and take a financial hit if the numbers were close but don’t want to do so now that the pandemic has caused the used car market to fall out. Values went from around $23k on Carvana down to around $20k over the last month.

My commute is pretty simple, I drive through my town for about 2 miles, get on a 55 mph highway for about 4 miles, and then drive through about 4 miles of city traffic, and then about another mile of city at the end. It’s about 10 miles each way. I have 1 or 2 alternate routes if the traffic is bad that is all highway, but ends up being closer to 20 miles each way. They’re also toll highways and I’m kind of cheap in that regard I guess, but $3 each way every day does add up.

In the summer I will do 3 or 4 trips Per week to work from shore areas (we relocate to be with family in the summer once the kids are out of school) ... these commutes are all highway and about 60 miles each way. No avoiding the tolls this way!

My work is in the planning stages for chargers. We don’t have them yet. I’m involved with the plans and I am trying to get them to put in 6-20 or 14-30 outlets rather than a ChargePoint. Out lot is private and not accessible to the public so we can’t be a destination partner for Tesla. I also need to figure out a way to Bill users as the employer will not provide free electricity.

Anyway I mention the above because that would be enough to help me not have to charge when I’m at the shore doing the 120 mile trip in the summer and not have to rely on Supercharging and not have to plug in at those shore houses. I’d also likely use regular household charging at home since I drive less than 30 miles a day including the 20 for work.

I’m comparing the Outback Limited XT or Touring XT specifically to the Model Y. I drove a Model 3 before the world shut down and I enjoyed it, but as a dad that is involved with my two kids’ sports (they’re both under 10) I have to have the cargo capacity to hold soccer and baseball gear.

I also foresee this becoming the family Trip car unless we can’t fit everything, or do a long vacation, which we would use my wife’s Honda Pilot.

Ideally the Model Y would eventually take the place of the Pilot and the Mrs. could get a smaller car in the future when we are comfortable with the Y. I am expecting to have to pursue the roof rack solution for that, which is fine for the couple times a year I’d need it. I could also consider the trailer hitch for bike rack purposes as well.

Anyway at quick glance it looks like the sticker plus State tax ends up pushing the Outback Touring XT up near $43-44k. In NJ we have a new benefit this year with up to $5000 off an EV depending on range, so the $53000 sticker with destination on the Model Y would become $48000. There’s also no state tax on an EV sale here.

It looks like with gas being around $2.50 per gallon I would save around $1000 per year with the Y after electricity costs are factored in. I pay $0.17 per kWh including supply and delivery, and we don’t have time of use. I also factored an 80% charging efficiency rating with 120V compared to 90% with 240V.

I am considering 240 V, but this requires major electrical panel upgrades as it is maxed and has been combined and tandem’ed already. I know of the federal rebate related to EVSE charging stuff, but it’s unlikely I would do this by year end when it expires. Perhaps it will get extended again, and then I will pursue a 14-30 or 14-50 solution (maybe even the HWC)...

I’ve read a few posts here comparing Eyesight from Subaru and AP. I don’t like the slowing down for lights and stop signs and don’t like the phantom braking thing. I have no interest in FSD as I enjoy driving, but I will admit I do use adaptive cruise in traffic to help take stress out of rush hour commutes. To that, my Subaru has performed excellent.

My pet peeve about the Subaru system is that I have lane keep and not lane centering. This means I ping pong off the boundary of the lane rather than actively stay centered. The 2020 Subaru now have Lane Centering. Also, the car is very cautious to accelerate when the traffic ahead turns off into a parking lot, like a hard 90 degree right turn. It’s not as natural as me where I project them to be moved and modify my speed as such. This results in horn honks behind me and people cutting in from the middle lane ahead of me.

I’m just hoping to buy a car that I can trust will make it at least 10 years but depreciation isn’t important as this next purchase will likely be driven until the wheels drop off.

My biggest concerns are the range in summer with those commutes. I live in NJ and we get snowy winters, so I believe i would be best suited for the AWD LR that is out currently.

I would consider a SR AWD if such a thing was released as long as I had that work charging solution in place.

Things like the new Mini electric are interesting but the short 120ish mile range cross it off the list. Which is a shame, because I could buy that for around $16k after federal and state rebates.

I’d need to time this right if I wasn’t trading in to Tesla, as I’d just have to hold the lease until it ended and turn it back in at a loss of $360 per month if I was early. Subaru is already sending me advertisements to get into the new Outback with no lease end penalty.

Things I am going to miss on the Y are potentially the heated steering wheel and auto dimming side mirrors. I’m sure I will get used to no CarPlay as I drive more and more. I am concerned about no spare tire in the event of a failure, and I might have to get a Modern Spare kit.

Things that concern me about long term ownership of the Subaru is the direct injection engine which seems like all brands have carbon buildup over time and the transmission is a CVT which is hard and expensive to repair when things start to fail.

I’ve already checked PlugShare and ABRP and I have lots of Supercharger options near me and off the highways. Everything seems doable.

what are your thoughts?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Kind of like saying you need to choose between buying a horse and buying a cow.
You like getting milk, but need to take long trips often, where a horse would be better.

You have so many data points that you seem to want everything.

From what you post, a Model Y would work out very well for you. After you have it for a while you will sort out all the charging things.

Besides...Subaru spelled backwards is U-R-A-Bus

Subaru's mostly drive very boring. A Tesla can rock your World!

 

[Pilot1226]

Kind of like saying you need to choose between buying a horse and buying a cow.
You like getting milk, but need to take long trips often, where a horse would be better.

You have so many data points that you seem to want everything.

From what you post, a Model Y would work out very well for you. After you have it for a while you will sort out all the charging things.

Besides...Subaru spelled backwards is U-R-A-Bus

Subaru's mostly drive very boring. A Tesla can rock your World!

I have to admit, aside from the summer commute, I really don’t have any issues with charging. I could stop at a Super on the way to or from the shore, but anyone familiar will agree that the traffic is awful on Fridays going down and Sundays going up with all the vacationers from NY/North NJ areas. It’s just another 20-30 minutes on an already lousy drive that is typically late at night. I’d just want to get there. And while 120V might help take some of the edge off - gaining something is better than zero (or losing with Sentry etc) - it obviously can’t replenish the 120 round trip I’d need. Work charging helps fix that, but I don’t want to take off from the gate with my shoes untied.

I do want a versatile vehicle. I like SUV’s, I’ve owned 3 Subarus in a row at this point, and they’re very capable in bad weather and snow. They’re utilitarian. The new Forester has more agility and pep compared to the previous models I’ve owned but it’s no sports car. And I don’t necessarily want a sportscar.

For me the perks and incentives are related to reduced maintenance, reduced operating costs, better technology and safety features. Performance is great but it’s the same reason I’m driving a Subaru now over another brand focused on performance: I need utility. I just want more than 20 mpg.

 

[Mr X]

Subawho?

 

[myMY808]

You seem to have it pretty well thought out. There’s a certain portion of the purchasing decision that’s objective and a portion that’s subjective. Each person is a little different.

The only question I had was that your lease currently runs until January 2022. Lots can change between now and then, including pricing, incentives, etc. Is there a reason that you’d need to something sooner rather than later?

 

[Mr. Burrito]

For the Y:

• You can count all the lifetime service you will need to do on one hand and most are in terms of years, not months.
• While Subaru has started some over-the-air updates on newer models, it will be a pile of rarely updated dung compared to Tesla's frequent updates that actually add legitimate new features (sometimes significant) on a regular basis.
• The Y will absolutely destroy the Outback (even in XT trim) for any fun-to-drive or performance/handling evaluation.
  
• The usability and functionality of Tesla's interface is light years beyond the Subaru.
• Resale value, while good on the Subaru, isn't going to touch the Tesla.
• Bumper to bumper Y warranty is 4 year / 50k with Motors / batteries at 8-years / 100k on the Y (non-performance). Subaru's bumper to bumper is 3 year / 36k with 5 year / 60k drivetrain.
• Some areas offer mobile service for certain repairs/maintenance (they come to your house and fix it) which doesn't exist with Subaru.
• And then you have all the benefits of an EV over an ICE vehicle - no emissions, lower operating costs, yada yada yada.

For the Outback:

• Outback will be better in the snow - much more ground clearance and I feel the Subarus are more predictable on snow/ice than the 3 (and presumably by extension the Y) even with the same tires.
• The Outback is also larger with more cargo space (The Y is Forester size-ish).
• The Outback's dynamic cruise (on newer models) is arguably less buggy than Tesla TACC IMO.
• The Tesla does not have any option to unlink GPS speed from your cruise set speed. You can't just set it to 70 so it stays on 70 - it will auto-adjust when it thinks the speed limit has changed (sometimes incorrectly where it thinks the speed is 30 while you are on 70 mph highway and it slams on the brakes).
• No easy access to 240v (or willingness to supercharge when you need to) is a major downside to any Tesla for your situation - I would get that ironed out first.
• Lack of convenient service centers may or may not be an issue for you (some states only have 1 or sometimes none). The service centers also don't generally have the best reputation - often they are way too busy and can take longer than expected.
• Getting an answer in a reasonable time frame from someone at Tesla is a major hassle most of the time - even getting someone on the phone may be impossible. They also have a tendency to screw up stuff during the buying process - double charging, jacked paperwork and no one seems to have the power to fix anything or take responsibility (take it or leave it).
• Tesla pressures you to sign all the paperwork (and pay for the car) before you can inspect the vehicle in a lot of cases.
• Tesla is a crapshoot when it comes to build quality as far as fit and finish, paint prep, etc.
• The Outback will get you Apple Carplay / Android Auto / SiriusXM which are not available on the Y.
• EV batteries tend to lose range over time. Tesla only warranties battery degradation to a minimum of 70% over their 8 year, 100k warranty. That said, generally the loss is not that large - might be something like 10% over a lot of miles but that is no guarantee and could be impacted by your charging regime over time.
• Cold temps drastically impact your given range. It could be up to 50% worse in very cold temps. Even more moderate temps, like 40's and 50's can noticeably impact range.

 

[Erleichda]

Get the Y.

It's actually better in the snow than a Subie. Their time has passed.

A lot of the above post is a bit misleading.

 

[db93]

My Aunt in VA loves her Subaru
Can't wait to get the MY for her to test drive

Nothing wrong with the Outback other than the seats are back killers for road trips

 

[Mr. Burrito]

Get the Y.

It's actually better in the snow than a Subie.

A lot of the above post is a bit misleading.

I’ve driven both the 3 and Outback in the snow. Others share the same sentiment - perhaps its better on the Y than the 3 - can’t say for sure. Heavy snow will favor the Outback though with its 2 inches more ground clearance.

 

[dixosw]

I have a LR RWD Model 3 and a Subaru Outback (2017). Love the Outback when we first got it, still do - they are wonderful, dependable gas cars. But it's a gas car. There is no comparison. Once we got the Model 3 we quickly realized there is no going back. No hassle with charging, no hassle with road trips. The Tesla is just better. Period. The only advantage our Outback has over the 3 is 4WD and more storage space. Would happily and rapidly trade it for a Y when the time is right.

 

[bruce4000]

I’m replacing a 2005 Outback with a MY. One big thing is the ev has a frunk and large under floor storage so will actually have Significantly more storage even though similar size on outside. Will get a tire plug kit and compressor for spare tire issue. Subaru has100k miles and last time I took it for an oil change they said it’s starting to leak some oil which they said is common with that engine.

 

[mac9899]

2018 Forester and 2019 Crosstrek ex-owner. I put 30-40 k miles on each.
Subaru has gone down, IMO underpowered to many engine / transmissions issues and they implemented cuts, not even included the oil and maintenance.

Go for the Y AWD, use the state incentive to your advantage and enjoy it. Just switched to one from a 3 it’s even better and it should cover most if not all of your needs.
Improved winter performance, cargo, etc, best car I’ve owned so far, you’ll like it.






[ QUOTE="Pilot1226, post: 4660270, member: 123921"]Hi all,

Long time lurker but first post here.

Long story short, I’m leasing a Subaru Forester. It was a necessary thing at the time, it replaced my Subaru Outback which was around 8 years old with nearly 100k miles. There were a lot of things that needed to get done at once (Big timing belt service, brakes, tires) so I chose to trade in, get a check for the value of the Outback, and put down $0 towards my lease on the Forester.

My lease ends January of 2022, which is a little over 19 months away. I could trade-in the lease and take a financial hit if the numbers were close but don’t want to do so now that the pandemic has caused the used car market to fall out. Values went from around $23k on Carvana down to around $20k over the last month.

My commute is pretty simple, I drive through my town for about 2 miles, get on a 55 mph highway for about 4 miles, and then drive through about 4 miles of city traffic, and then about another mile of city at the end. It’s about 10 miles each way. I have 1 or 2 alternate routes if the traffic is bad that is all highway, but ends up being closer to 20 miles each way. They’re also toll highways and I’m kind of cheap in that regard I guess, but $3 each way every day does add up.

In the summer I will do 3 or 4 trips Per week to work from shore areas (we relocate to be with family in the summer once the kids are out of school) ... these commutes are all highway and about 60 miles each way. No avoiding the tolls this way!

My work is in the planning stages for chargers. We don’t have them yet. I’m involved with the plans and I am trying to get them to put in 6-20 or 14-30 outlets rather than a ChargePoint. Out lot is private and not accessible to the public so we can’t be a destination partner for Tesla. I also need to figure out a way to Bill users as the employer will not provide free electricity.

Anyway I mention the above because that would be enough to help me not have to charge when I’m at the shore doing the 120 mile trip in the summer and not have to rely on Supercharging and not have to plug in at those shore houses. I’d also likely use regular household charging at home since I drive less than 30 miles a day including the 20 for work.

I’m comparing the Outback Limited XT or Touring XT specifically to the Model Y. I drove a Model 3 before the world shut down and I enjoyed it, but as a dad that is involved with my two kids’ sports (they’re both under 10) I have to have the cargo capacity to hold soccer and baseball gear.

I also foresee this becoming the family Trip car unless we can’t fit everything, or do a long vacation, which we would use my wife’s Honda Pilot.

Ideally the Model Y would eventually take the place of the Pilot and the Mrs. could get a smaller car in the future when we are comfortable with the Y. I am expecting to have to pursue the roof rack solution for that, which is fine for the couple times a year I’d need it. I could also consider the trailer hitch for bike rack purposes as well.

Anyway at quick glance it looks like the sticker plus State tax ends up pushing the Outback Touring XT up near $43-44k. In NJ we have a new benefit this year with up to $5000 off an EV depending on range, so the $53000 sticker with destination on the Model Y would become $48000. There’s also no state tax on an EV sale here.

It looks like with gas being around $2.50 per gallon I would save around $1000 per year with the Y after electricity costs are factored in. I pay $0.17 per kWh including supply and delivery, and we don’t have time of use. I also factored an 80% charging efficiency rating with 120V compared to 90% with 240V.

I am considering 240 V, but this requires major electrical panel upgrades as it is maxed and has been combined and tandem’ed already. I know of the federal rebate related to EVSE charging stuff, but it’s unlikely I would do this by year end when it expires. Perhaps it will get extended again, and then I will pursue a 14-30 or 14-50 solution (maybe even the HWC)...

I’ve read a few posts here comparing Eyesight from Subaru and AP. I don’t like the slowing down for lights and stop signs and don’t like the phantom braking thing. I have no interest in FSD as I enjoy driving, but I will admit I do use adaptive cruise in traffic to help take stress out of rush hour commutes. To that, my Subaru has performed excellent.

My pet peeve about the Subaru system is that I have lane keep and not lane centering. This means I ping pong off the boundary of the lane rather than actively stay centered. The 2020 Subaru now have Lane Centering. Also, the car is very cautious to accelerate when the traffic ahead turns off into a parking lot, like a hard 90 degree right turn. It’s not as natural as me where I project them to be moved and modify my speed as such. This results in horn honks behind me and people cutting in from the middle lane ahead of me.

I’m just hoping to buy a car that I can trust will make it at least 10 years but depreciation isn’t important as this next purchase will likely be driven until the wheels drop off.

My biggest concerns are the range in summer with those commutes. I live in NJ and we get snowy winters, so I believe i would be best suited for the AWD LR that is out currently.

I would consider a SR AWD if such a thing was released as long as I had that work charging solution in place.

Things like the new Mini electric are interesting but the short 120ish mile range cross it off the list. Which is a shame, because I could buy that for around $16k after federal and state rebates.

I’d need to time this right if I wasn’t trading in to Tesla, as I’d just have to hold the lease until it ended and turn it back in at a loss of $360 per month if I was early. Subaru is already sending me advertisements to get into the new Outback with no lease end penalty.

Things I am going to miss on the Y are potentially the heated steering wheel and auto dimming side mirrors. I’m sure I will get used to no CarPlay as I drive more and more. I am concerned about no spare tire in the event of a failure, and I might have to get a Modern Spare kit.

Things that concern me about long term ownership of the Subaru is the direct injection engine which seems like all brands have carbon buildup over time and the transmission is a CVT which is hard and expensive to repair when things start to fail.

I’ve already checked PlugShare and ABRP and I have lots of Supercharger options near me and off the highways. Everything seems doable.

what are your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

 

[Eclectic]

Go for the Subaru. I have one in Montana and it's been everything we could have wanted. Lots of room, very quiet, very efficient and it will cruise on the freeway like a champ. The prices are negotiable and the freedom from having to find chargers is a huge deal when on road trips. In two years with the Subaru we've had to take it in a grand total of zero times and it has saved us in bad weather quite a few times.​

 

[Joshker]

Ok, I’m obviously biased as a two Tesla household but I have owned many Subaru’s in the NW, I’m a technician by trade and I own an automotive pre-purchase inspection service local to Portland. We inspect them all of the time, yes they are good cars, are the newer ones are more reliable, sure, but there’s no comparison, Subaru’s have no character, are completely soulless and I think you will strongly regret not going with the Y.

 

[tashtibet]

been EV only family since 2016-will never ever go back to ICE. Owning an ICE vehicle there's no such thing as paid off -it's ever rip off. I've owned Subaru Forester twice but EVs performance in the snow is no match.

 

[Raechris]

OP - that is quite a post and you have clearly been thorough in your analysis. Get the Tesla - in a few months you will wonder why it was even a question.

 

[MXLRplus]

The truth is the EV powertrain is a superior technology to a combustion engine mated to a transmission.
Internal combustion cars are improving every year, but there is only so much they can do.
AWD EV is more tractable than any ICE system. They have quicker throttle response, more granularity, more predictable traction.
But this is entirely dependent on the software that controls the EV power distribution. Tesla is pretty good. Better than Subaru, but it's not a fair fight. The Subaru AWD system is very good, but it's limited by it's powertrain behavior.

Charging at home only seems daunting at first. With your 20-30 mile commute, 120 will serve you, but it's not going to be as hard as you think to make the jump to 240. Even with only 15 amps of 240 you'll only need 3 hours of charging to get 30 miles worth. If you program your charging to occur right before you leave, it preheats the battery and doesn't hurt the range as bad in the winter. But yes, winter MPG and EV range take a big hit, EVs more than ICE since the heating is done with electricity, not waste heat. The good news is you can preheat your cabin while you are getting ready for work, and that power can come from your house, not your range. No carbon monoxide issues ever again.

However, if you think you're going to save a lot of money by switching to an EV, your scenario isn't going to do it. The people who can really save money with EVs drive at least 100 miles a day, usually more.

Our family drives EVs because we like the way they put out power, like waking each morning to a 'full tank', and we get to help clean the environment without suffering like a martyr.

 

[buttershrimp]

On one hand, the model Y is like 10 years ahead of other vehicles on the road.... but it can’t compete with the Subaru’s superiority at LPGA and WNBA sporting events, road handling in Vermont, and superior storage for Birkenstocks beneath the seats.... not to mention sound system of the outback is far superior at playing Indigo Girls soundtracks.

 

[Pilot1226]

First off, thank you all for your replies! I didn't expect as much. I actually stumbled onto these forums after posting a similar question on the (less active) Outback forums, and many suggested the Tesla made more sense. Some of you had some questions about motive and whatnot, so I'll try to answer them directly.

The only question I had was that your lease currently runs until January 2022. Lots can change between now and then, including pricing, incentives, etc. Is there a reason that you’d need to something sooner rather than later?

Certainly not, the lease is essentially money out the window, though. There sure won't be any equity in it now that the pandemic has caused the used car market to bottom out. I would be willing to get out of the lease and pay a penalty up to ~$1000 or so because every $360 per month I put towards the lease is money I'm never getting back. So, it would save me some months of payments and I can take that money and put it into the Y.

NJ State Incentives are in place for several years - beyond when my lease expires. They also have another incentive providing up to $500 for EVSE as well.

Federal Incentives are gone for Teslas but I do have the chance at getting the 30% off EVSE equipment/installs through the end of the year. I would probably wait until I actually bought an EV before doing it.

For the Y:

• Resale value, while good on the Subaru, isn't going to touch the Tesla.
• Bumper to bumper Y warranty is 4 year / 50k with Motors / batteries at 8-years / 100k on the Y (non-performance). Subaru's bumper to bumper is 3 year / 36k with 5 year / 60k drivetrain.

• Outback will be better in the snow - much more ground clearance and I feel the Subarus are more predictable on snow/ice than the 3 (and presumably by extension the Y) even with the same tires.
• The Outback is also larger with more cargo space (The Y is Forester size-ish).
• No easy access to 240v (or willingness to supercharge when you need to) is a major downside to any Tesla for your situation - I would get that ironed out first.
• Lack of convenient service centers may or may not be an issue for you (some states only have 1 or sometimes none).
• EV batteries tend to lose range over time. Tesla only warranties battery degradation to a minimum of 70% over their 8 year, 100k warranty. That said, generally the loss is not that large - might be something like 10% over a lot of miles but that is no guarantee and could be impacted by your charging regime over time.
• Cold temps drastically impact your given range. It could be up to 50% worse in very cold temps. Even more moderate temps, like 40's and 50's can noticeably impact range.

Hi, I read your other thread about these points, and I'm happy to see them reiterated here. First and foremost, I don't care about resale. The Model Y could very well be the last car I ever purchase. The only time retail might come into play is in the event of an accident since they could total the car if the damage exceeds the assessed value.

The bumper to bumper warranty is a little misleading. My old 2011 Outback had a torque converter fail at 90k miles. Apparently the CVT's are giving Subaru problems, and they've extended all the CVT warranties to 10y/100k miles. Coming up on the 100k mark was part of the reason I decided to trade in as well as I've heard they are nearly $9000 to replace with a new part from Subaru - they can't fix the belt/pulleys, only replace them.

Before my Outback, I owned a Legacy which has LESS ground clearance than the Model Y does. Not sure about the 3, though. Anyway, the Legacy was excellent in my ~8 snowy winters up here in that car, in all-seasons. I haven't run a dedicated snow tire but I am considering putting an all weather tire (all seasons with better winter performance) on them when they need replacing.

The Forester Cargo room is actually "more" than the Outback, but it's more vertical space. I actually fit something in my new Forester that I couldn't fit in my Outback because of the height of the object. So, I guess it's depending on what you haul. I personally liked the layout of the Outback better, but the Forester isn't a problem, it's functional.

I don't think I need 240V since I'm driving under 30 miles per day. That's a full charge in under 8 hours on a standard outlet (assuming 250 watts per mile, for 32 miles gained) and I have the means to keep it plugged in constantly at home as needed. Again I'll consider that rebate and go for a 240V 20A or 30A line if I need to.

I live 10 miles from the Paramus service area, so I'm good.

I'm aware of range degradation and I'm planning to routinely charge to either 70 or 80% maximum for regular use.

Model Y heat pump seems to fix a lot of the resistance heating range loss from the other models.

Nothing wrong with the Outback other than the seats are back killers for road trips

Biggest complaints about every single Subaru I've been in. They hurt my lower back (which is prone to some issues thanks to an old soccer injury)

I’ve driven both the 3 and Outback in the snow. Others share the same sentiment - perhaps its better on the Y than the 3 - can’t say for sure. Heavy snow will favor the Outback though with its 2 inches more ground clearance.

I've never been high centered on my Legacy that I mentioned before, so for me, outside NYC metro area in a busy suburban area, the roads are plowed quickly. This is not an issue.

I have a LR RWD Model 3 and a Subaru Outback (2017). Love the Outback when we first got it, still do - they are wonderful, dependable gas cars. But it's a gas car. There is no comparison. Once we got the Model 3 we quickly realized there is no going back. No hassle with charging, no hassle with road trips. The Tesla is just better. Period. The only advantage our Outback has over the 3 is 4WD and more storage space. Would happily and rapidly trade it for a Y when the time is right.

Cool, good luck. I loved my Test Drive of the 3, that was an AWD non-performance.

I’m replacing a 2005 Outback with a MY. One big thing is the ev has a frunk and large under floor storage so will actually have Significantly more storage even though similar size on outside. Will get a tire plug kit and compressor for spare tire issue. Subaru has100k miles and last time I took it for an oil change they said it’s starting to leak some oil which they said is common with that engine.

I think that's the EJ253? Yes, that's the same engine from my 2011 Outback as well. It was known to have seal issues and head gasket issues because of a defective part in manufacturing. My 2009 Legacy also had this problem.

2018 Forester and 2019 Crosstrek ex-owner. I put 30-40 k miles on each.
Subaru has gone down, IMO underpowered to many engine / transmissions issues and they implemented cuts, not even included the oil and maintenance.

I'm not a fan of the CVT reliability and such. I don't mind the engine on my Forester, the tuning on it is pretty good. I only notice it "slow" when I'm doing a brisk highway passing.

Go for the Subaru. I have one in Montana and it's been everything we could have wanted. Lots of room, very quiet, very efficient and it will cruise on the freeway like a champ. The prices are negotiable and the freedom from having to find chargers is a huge deal when on road trips. In two years with the Subaru we've had to take it in a grand total of zero times and it has saved us in bad weather quite a few times.​

Not going to lie, I was thinking about this. With EV's grabbing more market share, I don't think I'd be anywhere near sticker if I went for the Outback Touring XT... I wouldn't be surprised to see 10% under MSRP or more, which was rare to see. I leased under the VIP program due to my membership with Leave No Trace, and they base the lease off the invoice price which was around 5% under MSRP I think.

Ok, I’m obviously biased as a two Tesla household but I have owned many Subaru’s in the NW, I’m a technician by trade and I own an automotive pre-purchase inspection service local to Portland. We inspect them all of the time, yes they are good cars, are the newer ones are more reliable, sure, but there’s no comparison, Subaru’s have no character, are completely soulless and I think you will strongly regret not going with the Y.

Haha, soulless? Ouch. They're full of utility and a great car for me to haul the kids and our cargo in. And, they're safe. I don't mind it, again I'm not looking to drive a sportscar here. Of all the things with Tesla - reduced operating cost, new tech, learning tech, etc., the performance is on the lower end of my concerns.

been EV only family since 2016-will never ever go back to ICE. Owning an ICE vehicle there's no such thing as paid off -it's ever rip off. I've owned Subaru Forester twice but EVs performance in the snow is no match.

Interesting. Subaru's claim to fame is all about the snow performance.

OP - that is quite a post and you have clearly been thorough in your analysis. Get the Tesla - in a few months you will wonder why it was even a question.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Pilot1226]

I guess I can't edit yet because I don't have enough posts, lol.

Charging at home only seems daunting at first. With your 20-30 mile commute, 120 will serve you, but it's not going to be as hard as you think to make the jump to 240. Even with only 15 amps of 240 you'll only need 3 hours of charging to get 30 miles worth. If you program your charging to occur right before you leave, it preheats the battery and doesn't hurt the range as bad in the winter.

Good point. I do drive over 12k a year, so I do a bunch of weekendy driving, but my commute itself isn't that bad.

I suppose for me is if I'm hiring someone to do a panel anyway, why do a 6-20 line when they have to run the line and do the labor anyway? I might as well do 14-30, and maybe get the HWC outside (I park in the driveway, so I'd mount it or an outlet on the outside of the garage.)

On one hand, the model Y is like 10 years ahead of other vehicles on the road.... but it can’t compete with the Subaru’s superiority at LPGA and WNBA sporting events, road handling in Vermont, and superior storage for Birkenstocks beneath the seats.... not to mention sound system of the outback is far superior at playing Indigo Girls soundtracks.

Good point, I'm essentially driving a "2030" Tesla