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Between a Model Y and a Subaru Outback

cusetownusa

Member
Jan 29, 2020
532
879
Syracuse NY
R4P was on my shortlist. Inventory is hard to find. Dealers are marking it up. While there is around a $1000 state EV rebate ($25 per electric mile x 42 miles of range) I would still pay 6.625% sales tax. It essentially comes out to be very close in price to the MY anyway but has all the maintenance requires of an ICE. And it also has some weird quirks as mentioned on some of the YT videos.

Talking mid to upper 30’s to start after credits. MY SR is still a winner here. Range is not my issue. It’s the Tesla image that is bothering my wife.

What is the Tesla image? I apologize if it was mentioned earlier and I missed it.
 

Pilot1226

Member
Dec 20, 2019
355
157
USA
Sorry. This was my first thread ever on the forum so I was doing my research. Ultimately, the Mrs. was not onboard with the plan and I caved. However between the lousy fuel economy and other things with the Subaru that she can actually see (money, fuel costs, etc.) she is picking up that I am not as happy as I could be.

Her perception of Tesla is that it is a luxury brand, like an Audi/MB/BMW/etc. She thinks it is kind of flaunting wealth at a time where the world is falling apart with excess.

While I understand a 30-40k vehicle isn’t much different from an ICE, it’s the “I’m better than you image” that is bothering her.

The funny thing is when I speed by people in the snow in my Subaru, that’s exactly what I’m thinking.
 
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cusetownusa

Member
Jan 29, 2020
532
879
Syracuse NY
Sorry. This was my first thread ever on the forum so I was doing my research. Ultimately, the Mrs. was not onboard with the plan and I caved. However between the lousy fuel economy and other things with the Subaru that she can actually see (money, fuel costs, etc.) she is picking up that I am not as happy as I could be.

Her perception of Tesla is that it is a luxury brand, like an Audi/MB/BMW/etc. She thinks it is kind of flaunting wealth at a time where the world is falling apart with excess.

While I understand a 30-40k vehicle isn’t much different from an ICE, it’s the “I’m better than you image” that is bothering her.

The funny thing is when I speed by people in the snow in my Subaru, that’s exactly what I’m thinking.

got it...a lot of people I know still think of Tesla as a luxury expensive brand as well. I think it is mainly that when they first learned about Tesla the cars were $100,000+. A lot has changed over the last few years. As people become more aware they realize that the costs are coming down and less expensive Tesla options are available.

I had a related conversation with my brother over the summer who at the time just leased a fully loaded Grand Cherokee (MSRP $54,000+). We got paired up golfing with someone that I knew who had just bought a base level Model 3. In private my brother commented how lucky it must be to be able to afford a car like that. I had to correct him and explain that his GC was more expensive without even factoring in gas savings. lol

He was surprised by that and now when his lease is up I think he will look into a Model Y or whatever EV is available at that time.
 
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2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
1,790
1,838
USA
That was Elons strategy from the beginning. Start off very high price and that becomes the image. That you have a high end high priced lineup. Even after you come out with entry level vehicles.

On the other end of the spectrum, Hyundai has never really gotten buyers to believe their Genesis or Equus (or whatever name they use today) line is high end luxury. Why? Hyundai's root were deep in $4995 Hyundai Excels. That was thirty years ago, but Hyundai established themselves as cheap car maker.

Tesla did the opposite when they established themselves..
 
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Pilot1226

Member
Dec 20, 2019
355
157
USA
Right. I am more a logical, analytical mindset. I see dollars and cents.

I see a net purchase of around 28-29k after tax credits for the SR, followed by around $600 worth of electricity per year.

The Subaru was a net purchase of 40k, with around $2000 a year worth of fuel.

I am trying to make my appeal with the bank account at the forefront of my argument. I’m totally on board here.
 

Automobilist

Member
Feb 18, 2021
66
56
Orange County, CA
Right. I am more a logical, analytical mindset. I see dollars and cents.

I see a net purchase of around 28-29k after tax credits for the SR, followed by around $600 worth of electricity per year.

The Subaru was a net purchase of 40k, with around $2000 a year worth of fuel.

I am trying to make my appeal with the bank account at the forefront of my argument. I’m totally on board here.

If it helps, I think at rate it is selling, the Model Y will soon be very common in many parts of the country, while I'm sure people will still find them cool for quite some time, any exclusivity/snobbiness factor will be significantly diluted by there being 20 of them in any given parking lot (I am not saying this to disparage the Model Y in any way, I own one, its great).

If that doesn't work, maybe you can point out the fact that while with BMW/Mercedes many people will get the car because of the badge and purely as a status symbol, with the Tesla you are also implicitly demonstrating your concern for the environment, sustainable transport, and trying to make the world a better place for future generations. Good luck...
 

srlawren

Member
Aug 3, 2020
862
572
Vancouver, BC, Canada, Eh?
If it helps, I think at rate it is selling, the Model Y will soon be very common in many parts of the country, while I'm sure people will still find them cool for quite some time, any exclusivity/snobbiness factor will be significantly diluted by there being 20 of them in any given parking lot

For the past week or two (I forget exactly when I started), I've been counting the Teslas I've personally spotted while out on errands or walks in my area of greater Vancouver, BC. So far, my breakdown looks like this:

787 total Teslas spotted, of which:
682 Model 3 - 86.7%
38 Model Y - 4.8%
40 Model S - 5.1%
27 Model X - 3.4%

Hardly exhaustive or scientifically accurate, but MY spottings are definitely on the rise around here, to the point where I'm seeing them nearly as often as MS or MX, though all 3 are far, far behind M3 popularity. I'll continue to track for another few weeks.
 
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Sudsington

Member
Mar 10, 2017
156
129
Chicago, IL
Sorry. This was my first thread ever on the forum so I was doing my research. Ultimately, the Mrs. was not onboard with the plan and I caved. However between the lousy fuel economy and other things with the Subaru that she can actually see (money, fuel costs, etc.) she is picking up that I am not as happy as I could be.

Her perception of Tesla is that it is a luxury brand, like an Audi/MB/BMW/etc. She thinks it is kind of flaunting wealth at a time where the world is falling apart with excess.

While I understand a 30-40k vehicle isn’t much different from an ICE, it’s the “I’m better than you image” that is bothering her.

The funny thing is when I speed by people in the snow in my Subaru, that’s exactly what I’m thinking.

My wife was worried about the same thing, the perception of having a Tesla. We probably would have gone with a Rav4 PHEV or Subaru Crosstrek hybrid if we didn't have a good test drive in the Model Y. Haven't test drove a Mach-E or ID.4, but those would be similarly priced to the Model Y.
 

srlawren

Member
Aug 3, 2020
862
572
Vancouver, BC, Canada, Eh?
LOL...I love the dedication! That's a lot of counting.

@facedown thanks! Well, I count them kind of "per trip" by remembering 3, Y, S, X. So I might come back from a short drive with 5 0 1 2 in my head. Jot that down on a new line in Google Keep and then repeat on subsequent trips. Then after 5 or 6 rows of that, I add those numbers into the running total like I originally posted, clear Google Keep, and repeat. It's not that tough, as Teslas are everywhere around here.
 
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2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
1,790
1,838
USA
I not sure I ever made (or didn’t make) a vehicle purchase based on what others may think of me.

I could not care LESS...about ANYONES opinion of me owning not one..but two..Tesla’s.


If they have a problem maybe they should have worked a little harder
 
Jul 20, 2012
414
232
Houston, TX
Especially excluding power trains, the Outback is a vastly different car compared to the Y.
  • Ground clearance (overland abilities)
  • Cargo volume
  • Performance
  • Ride quality
Not factoring distance comparisons due to seasonal changes (both ICE and EV’s experience, just more noticeable in the EV), you’re not looking at cars in the same class. It would be like comparing a Mercedes GLA coupe to a Tahoe.

if your are hoping to have the utilitarian features of a Subaru, the model Y (while super awesome... mmm kool-aid) does not cut it in some features that a Subi can offer.

If I have to wait to buy until 2022, and wanted more utilitarian features, I’d look at the Nissan Ariya or the Fisker Ocean. Both more utilitarian. Especially if that is more important than software, leading battery tech and charging network. I’m sure they’ll be both compelling cars.
 
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rypalmer

Active Member
Aug 22, 2014
1,405
1,507
Canada
Especially excluding power trains, the Outback is a vastly different car compared to the Y.
  • Ground clearance (overland abilities)
  • Cargo volume
....

if your are hoping to have the utilitarian features of a Subaru, the model Y (while super awesome... mmm kool-aid) does not cut it in some features that a Subi can offer.
Outback has 2" more ground clearance but only 11% more cargo area. Model Y has 3500lbs towing capacity vs 2,700lbs with the Outback, but arguably the Outback would be able to travel a little further between refuelling stops... Not sure about other utilitarian aspects.
 

Pilot1226

Member
Dec 20, 2019
355
157
USA
Thanks for sharing your opinions. I can’t honestly say I’ve ever maxed out the Outback for storage. Anytime we’ve had a lot of stuff to haul, we just throw it into her car.

Yes, in theory the range at 18 mpg would be 333 to fully empty. (18.5 gallon tank)

And, for reference, that would cost over $50 to fill up at $3/g.

I don’t off road. I like the AWD and I think Subaru has the best execution of a wagon at this time. Unfortunately it is not efficient.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,296
6,865
Canyon Lake,CA
People are talking about gasoline prices going up about $1.00 per gallon by year end. Could be something to consider.

Subaru tries to portray an adventerous image, but for the most part it carries a nerd connotation.

They have generally higher ground clearance and sluggish performance (except for the performance oriented rally models).
 

Pilot1226

Member
Dec 20, 2019
355
157
USA
Yeah, I get that. I’m on my 4th Subaru. The ones before my current 2021 were a little quirky inside. The newest redesign that started in 2020 really makes it feel like a fun car. I’m not really a fan of my wife’s Honda or family’s Toyota’s for different reasons.

I elected to go with the turbo engine to help with the performance side, but I do recognize that there’s only so much you can do for a “crossover” or wagon. Yet, the XT engine is quite nice even with the unproven track record as it’s only been offered since the 2019 Subaru Ascent launch. It replaces the previous Flat 6 3.6R engine.

At the end of the day it boils down to the significantly higher fuel cost - and it’s only 2 to 3 mpg less than the average for the normal 2.5 engine, so I have no regrets about the turbo versus the base engine - and the ownership cost over time. I can stomach an MCU repair or motor repair, but having to shell out $2000 in (mostly labor) for inevitable oil seal leaks, or head gasket failures, or fuel/combustion related failures, or CVT or other powertrain failures… just seems like a rabbit hole you’ll never dig out of.

If fuel jumps to 3.50 here and electricity holds its course at 0.17/kWh, that would equate to a difference of about $1700 in fuel. That figure assumes 18 mpg, along with a 333 Watts hours per mile. Hopefully those figures are accurate.
 

Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,296
6,865
Canyon Lake,CA
Forgot about Subaru using a CVT automatic transmissions. They take most all the fun out or driving enthusiastically.

While boring to drive, they do offer additional back road and deep snow capability.
 

Pilot1226

Member
Dec 20, 2019
355
157
USA
Yes, I’ve had no problems in the storm that brought 18” of snow we got earlier this winter… all seasons and AWD are good enough for these parts, no mountains or hills.

The enjoyment is the boost when you step on the gas. I wouldn’t expect more out of a wagon.

At least now the paddle shifters are on the wheel. Before (2011) they were on the steering column and didn’t rotate with the wheel, so they were hard to use.

I’ve used the paddles to make sure they worked right and downshifting a few times approaching hills. It’s fun but I don’t plan on doing it regularly. The CVT will wring it out to redline if you’re WOT. It’s always applying the ideal torque above 2k, so they say, and the XT does push you back in your seat.
 

tpoltron

Member
May 12, 2013
384
488
Cupertino, CA
Her perception of Tesla is that it is a luxury brand, like an Audi/MB/BMW/etc. She thinks it is kind of flaunting wealth at a time where the world is falling apart with excess.

It's funny, here in the Silicon Valley Teslas are so common no one bats an eye at them anymore. The Model 3 and Y are seen here as practical midrange transportation like a Camry or Highlander.

Oh and as you've mentioned you are more of a numbers than passion guy, have you factored in the reduced maintenance? We ran two electric vehicles for 4 years and only spent money on tires and wiper blades! There is no oil to change, brake pads last forever as most braking is regenerative, no one steals your catalytic converter etc. It seemed on my last ICE car there was a $600 bill every time we drove past the dealership when everything thing appeared to be running fine.
 

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