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Beware SMETS2 meters

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I attach FYI a couple of screenshots of my meter consumption as reported by Octopus using my 4? year old smart meter plus a piece of PVOutput log which shows how the Powerwall output and the home energy load don't quite match for a lot of the time (getting it 100% balanced must be difficult). The meter screenshots cover two situations (i) the battery is not fully charged by the solar so there's no export and (ii) there is surplus solar going to export. In the latter case export prevails and the meter sees no power inflow for several hours so the total daily metered power consumption is less.
Johns meter 04Jul20.JPG Johns meter 13Jul20.JPG PVOutput 0800 14Jul20.JPG

Nonetheless, the meter's 0.02 kWh in a half hour time slot is 0.04kWh per hour or an average power drain of 40W which looks to be more than the average mis-match on the PVOutput plot. Another interesting observation is that both sources of data show an increase in mains power consumption in the 00:30 to 04:30 period which is when the battery is programmed to use mains power for charging if necessary. Why does the battery use more mains power during that period? Cogitating whether or not to leap into action and do some charging?
 
I now have a conclusive reply from the EDF manager looking into my case. It confirms that the problem is the large amount of reactive power that the Powerwall consumes while synchronising with the grid, which it does on a minute by minute basis. I quote the following:

"Your current SMETS2 smart meter does in-fact measure both active and re-active power, and is designed to do so. I acknowledge that your previous legacy style meter (Serial number S9582916) and current check meter both react in stark contrast to your SMETS2 meter. After much investigation on my part, I’ve found out that neither our check meter or your previous mechanical meter have the capability of measuring reactive power, which is why you’re seeing the difference in usage, mostly at peak usage."

This I already knew from reading the specifications of the Landis+Gyr meters concerned.

"After consulting with our R&D team, they’ve looked into the in-depth half hourly reading intervals, and can see there’s a certain element of reactive power being used, predominantly during peak periods, which is why the meter is advancing during this time. Therefore, I believe the Tesla system is operating correctly, and is not making demands for extra power from the grid during peak periods, and I also believe the 0.2% difference is a realistic tolerance level too. However, there is an appliance (or appliances) using an element of reactive power, which is registering predominantly at peak periods. R&D seem to think this may be attributed to PV input into the system, and possibly a demand via an EV charger, although we have no way of being 100% sure."

No, it's not the solar or EV charger. With both turned off it makes no difference to the constant 60-100 watt demand.

Now this is where it gets interesting:

"I’ve also been informed by a Field District Manager that we’ve had similar instances of this situation previously, most notably with Tesla Powerwall systems, and in each case Tesla have been able to reduce the power loss factor to a figure of 1 or below, or what is more commonly known as ‘unity’."

From our subsequent phone conversation, these Powerwall installations are in the London area, so some of our fellow Powerwall owners must know something about this. If any of you read this, confirmation and comments would be appreciated.

I think Tesla Energy are being disingenuous referring you back to your energy supplier. I have just emailed the Tesla Energy Tech Support Officer who told me in February that they were carrying out tests on several types of Smarty Meter to investigate the problem, since when things have been very quiet. I have requested that they make the same alterations to my system that they have already made to other ones in the London area. I await Tesla's response!
 
Reactive power is the product of volts and amperes, caused when an AC voltage applied across a device is out of phase with the current flow. This is typical with inductive loads, such as motors, but also occurs in devices that don't have a unity power factor. In this case, the PWs are operating with a power factor less than 1, and a small amount of reactive power flows. Purely resistive loads do not draw any reactive power. Reactive power can do no work, it is only the result of the voltage and current being out of phase. But it can be measured, and indeed must be managed, as it is a critical factor in grid operation.
 
As power.saver says, reactive power is something that only applies to AC devices. Although I remember Watts = Volts x Amps from school, that only applies to DC or purely resistive AC loads. I had to research what reactive power is. Professional electricians may criticise the exact terminology I have used but I think it is essentially correct. Here is a fairly good explanation:
https://www.electrical4u.com/electrical-power-factor/
Unfortunately it involves a certain amount of fairly basic maths and equations, high school physics stuff. Scroll down to the Power Factor Triangle if equations are not your thing. if you haver heard of RMS or root mean square, this is what it's about.

Reactive power does no useful work but still has to be generated, so costs money. Until recently, domestic devices drew very little reactive power and was noit metered by traditional domestic electricity meters. So the small cost of generating it is just incorporated into your electricity bill.

Examples of purely resistive devices are old fashioned incandescent light bulbs, cooker elements and electric fires - the glowing element of an electric fire is just low resistance wire that gets hot when a current is passed through it. With these devices, by definition, the power factor is 1 or 100%.

However, AC motors do draw reactive power. My old fridge has a power factor of about 0.6, whereas with my new freezer it's 0.85. Modern electronic devices like TV's, computers etc draw an element of reactive power. More and more of these devices are finding their way into the domestic market, so reactive power supply is becoming a more significant factor.

Industry tends to use a lot of high power electric motors so potentially use a lot of reactive power. So industrial meters do measure reactive power, separately and ther customers are charged for it, with penalties for excessive reactive power demand. It is possible to reduce the reactive power demand by good design or fitting things like capacitor banks and other methods. There is quite an indusrty supplying reactive power reduction devices, They are not cheap, but the cost of reactive power surcharges make it worthwhile. The electricity supply industry needs to encourage reduction in reactive loads - by doing so it reduces the amount of power that has to be generated and hence the need for more power stations, so it's really a good thing.

Unfortunately, this seems to have crept into the domestic market via smart meters and probably accounts for why some people have noticed a rise in their bills - particularly if the have old deep freezes etc. My Tesla Powerwall seems to draw an inordinate amount of reactive power compared to real power, and this occurs when it is making small grid demands in order to keep in synchronisation with the mains frequency. It does this continuously, while supplying the house demand, otherwise presumably, clock time would go out of synch and there would probably be a big flash and hot smell when switching over! However, it also puts a similar amount of both real and reactive power back into the grid, the net consumption being near to zero. Again, unfortunately my smart meter only records import, not export. I am being paid for solar export aty the assumed 50% of energy generated by my panels. I understand that new solar installations use real export metering, presumably by smart meters set to record export ans well as import.

Here is an example of the data output from my Powerwall Gateway:
........"last_communication_time":"2020-01 11T19:00:00.340646564Z","instant_power":7,"instant_reactive_power":73,"instant_apparent_power":73.33484846919642,.........

You can see that instant_reactive_power is 10 times bigger than instant_power - that's real power that traditional meters record. If you add together the squares of real and reactive power and take the square root of the result you get instant_apparent_power.

Thes evalues are in watts and jump around all over the place, occasionally increasing to 500watts reactive power or more, but only for split seconds. Sometimes they are negative.

Tesla Powerwalls are not the only home batteries having this problem. My friendly EDF manager found a similar problem with his experimental home battery setup, which is probably why I've had good cooperation is ferreting out the answer to this. The powers that be seem to have kept very quiet about the whole issue, and it is quite a new phenomenon so the effects of metering reactive power may not have been fully appreciated, or they were not thought to be noticeable. An increase of a few watts from metering reactive power draw from freezers etc on the normal household load would bne very difficult to detect. It is only because with our home batteries we should be drawing zero power from the grid that it has become apparent.

I am hoping that the information I have been given about Tesla being able to adjust the reactive load is correct, otherwise I can only put up with the additional cost, about £100 per year on the ON-Peak tariff I changed to a couple of months ago.
 
I'm somewhat heartened to see this, purely from a point of view that I have exactly the same issue.

I have a SMETS2 meter fitted in July 2019, a Powerwall 2 on Gateway 1 installed in Dec 2018, 6kW of solar. I'm with Octopus Energy. Once the smart meter was installed I found a discrepancy between the smart meter reading and what the Tesla app stated for the Powerwall. When in self-power mode, the Tesla app reported 100% self power for the day and perhaps a 100w grid pull, whereas the smart meter would return up to 3kW grid draw for the day.

I recorded a YouTube video showing this variance back in Oct 2019 and reported it to Tesla, Octopus Energy and my solar installer and referred them to this video so they could see in realtime what was happening. They were all looking at it. Tesla requested the make and model of the smart meter and confirmed the variances in the data. This had to be regularly pushed by me to get any progress updates. I've never had a sensible response or update from anybody, and to be honest have rather left it be.

However, I would be interested to hear and see any outcomes @mikemillar as you seem to have made good progress in getting some answers and raising awareness of the issue. Tesla know about it from my support case that was raised ref INQ 20190719-202
 
Thanks for your input, JohnTisbury. I'm not entirely surprised that you have not had any sensible responses. I have been lucky to get into contact with an EDF manager who is experiencing the same problem with a home battery setup and so has a vested interest in finding answers. However I think it's going to be an uphill struggle to get Tesla to admit that their equipment could be improved. I emailed the people at Tesla Energy who already responded to my query several months ago, but ,rather unsurprisingly, no reply so far. Collecting information on case histories could be crucial so thanks for your ref code. What I'm really interested in is the suggestion that Tesla have already 'adjusted individual installations to reduce reactive power demand'. If we could get actual case histories we might have a stick to beat them with if they deny that there is anything wrong.
 
[QUOTE="Collecting information on case histories could be crucial so thanks for your ref code. What I'm really interested in is the suggestion that Tesla have already 'adjusted individual installations to reduce reactive power demand'. If we could get actual case histories we might have a stick to beat them with if they deny that there is anything wrong.[/QUOTE]

In the Comments section in my YouTube video I referred to there were/are many people who had exactly the same issues and results as me. Potentially those too could be collated. I've added link to the video here;
however, I'm more than happy to collate / collect the names and comments if you wish.
 
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[QUOTE="Collecting information on case histories could be crucial so thanks for your ref code. What I'm really interested in is the suggestion that Tesla have already 'adjusted individual installations to reduce reactive power demand'. If we could get actual case histories we might have a stick to beat them with if they deny that there is anything wrong.[/QUOTE]

In the Comments section in my YouTube video I referred to there were/are many people who had exactly the same issues and results as me. Potentially those too could be collated. I've added link to the video here;
however, I'm more than happy to collate / collect the names and comments if you wish.
 
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Reactions: mikemillar
Hi John, great video! You have exactly the same setup as me, including the Chameleon remote display. It is absolutely clear, and verified by EDF, that the Smart Meter records and charges for Reactive energy whereas the older meters do not. This is the reason for the energy difference. The Powerwall API shows that it consumes a lot of reactive power compared to real power while only synchronising with grid frequency and not drawing power to supply the home load. I'm not clear whether you have economy 7, or variable rate metering or a single tariff. The problem is obvious on the economy 7 ON-Peak rate where the powerwall says it's consuming less than 10 watts real power but my Chameleon shows a fairly steady 60-100watts power consumption.

However, the Powerwall also shows Reactive power values, which are often 100+ watts when less than 10 watts Real power is being consumed. The sign of the Reactive power value switches positive to negative on a second by second basis, indicating brief export as well as import. The two balance out over time. But my Smart meter is only set up to record Import so it doesn't take into account the power that is put back into the grid. Presumably if one had an export meter it would.

The Powerwall real power (10 watts) and reactive power (100watts) values give a Power Factor of about 0.1 or 10%. That is really bad. Most modern AC appliances have power factors of between 0.8 and 0.9 so you would probably not notice the additional consumption on your energy bill.

What is rather strange is that over 24 hours the Powerwall cumulative meter increase (from the API download) is almost identical to the increase on the Chameleon - it seems to be putting back the daytime reactive energy during the OFF-peak period when I'm demanding a lot of power to charge the Model S, the Powerwall and immersion heaters etc. from the grid. The net difference is close to zero, but it's loading the expensive ON-Peak metering.

John, your figure of £200 additional cost is a little higher than mine, as are your actual energy consumption figures. When I had the Smart meter installed I was on a tariff of nearly 25p ON-Peak but 4.9p OFF-Peak, the lowest OFF-Peak tariff I could get.I opted for this on the basis that if the Powerwall was generally supplying ALL the ON-Peak home demand it didn't matter what the tariff was. What I needed was the lowest OFF-Peak tariff. in fact the ON-Peak energy metered accounted for 25% of my total bill !! I've now got onto a 17p ON-Peak and 4.6p OFF-peak tariff, which reduces the excess to about £100 per year, so not quite so bad. However, we really should not have to pay for this peculiar byproduct of the way the Powerwall works.

John, you seem to be much better geared up with your Youtube videos etc than me and I'd be very happy if you could collate names and comments. I'm happy to help you with that where I can. I produced a detailed 'scientific' report to EDF on my findings and analysis, which you might be interested in. It's a fairly large pdf document. Is there a way of sending mail privately via this forum?

Mike
 
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As an non-UK member, I'm curious, does your tariff specify that you should be charged for reactive power? Here in the US, residential tariffs (almost?) never do.

Seems to me if the tariff does not specify charging for reactive power, then the problem is with the meter and the utility needs to fix it. While if the tariff does specify charging for reactive power, then Tesla needs to adjust the Powerwalls to reduce standby import of reactive power.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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Hi Wayne, I thought that too. However, the manager who has been investigating the problem has found that there was a change in the UK legislation that permits installation of smart meters which enables reactive power to be metered. The UK regulator is Ofgem. I have searched their site. There is a mass of stuff there, most of it very general. So far I've not been able to tracking down the relevant document. If anyone else can find it, please send the link!
Home

There's lots of stuff about codes of practice for installation, consumer rights etc, but what are power companies actually allowed to meter? where is the basic legislation?
 
There's lots of stuff about codes of practice for installation, consumer rights etc, but what are power companies actually allowed to meter? where is the basic legislation?

In the US, for investor owned utilities (also known as IOUs): the utility drafts up the tariff books which contain all the various rates of the utility. These are then passed by the public utilities commission for approval. Typically this is a state lead approval process.

For US municipal utilities (publicly owned by city or other government entity, or owned by members in a cooperative or co-op), the board of directors or commissioners overseeing the utilities' operation approves of the rates.

In ether case, the tariff you are on should denote how much per kVAR (pronounced kay-varr or kilo-varr) you should pay, and it should be a line item on your bill. At least looking through SCE (Southern California utility), only larger (20 kW + peak demand) commercial rates typically charge for kVAR, and there's a bit of slop (you don't need to be 100% resistive load). It is pretty much unheard of to charge residential customers kVAR and (until recently) demand charges that commercial customers would normally be subject to.

Anyway, the above is US specific, although maybe handy when navigating your laws.

In the end, if you are being charged for kVAR, but not being properly billed for it (no kVAR line item on your bill, just an increase in kWh consumption which is not the correct way to bill for this), then that is a failure in the utility to properly bill you. If the utility does not have a specific kVAR rate listed in the tariff, or otherwise doesn't list reactive power charges in the tariff, then the utility is essentially charging you for something outside the bounds of the tariff.
 
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I attach FYI a couple of screenshots of my meter consumption as reported by Octopus using my 4? year old smart meter plus a piece of PVOutput log which shows how the Powerwall output and the home energy load don't quite match for a lot of the time (getting it 100% balanced must be difficult). The meter screenshots cover two situations (i) the battery is not fully charged by the solar so there's no export and (ii) there is surplus solar going to export. In the latter case export prevails and the meter sees no power inflow for several hours so the total daily metered power consumption is less.
View attachment 564416 View attachment 564417 View attachment 564419

Nonetheless, the meter's 0.02 kWh in a half hour time slot is 0.04kWh per hour or an average power drain of 40W which looks to be more than the average mis-match on the PVOutput plot. Another interesting observation is that both sources of data show an increase in mains power consumption in the 00:30 to 04:30 period which is when the battery is programmed to use mains power for charging if necessary. Why does the battery use more mains power during that period? Cogitating whether or not to leap into action and do some charging?
Hi John, I've been meaning to reply but got diverted by a conversation with @power.saver. Your 'background' powerwall demand during the day looks like an average of about 0.01kWh per half hour or 0.02kWh. Have I mis-read the graphs? Mine is 4 times that. I'd be much happier if my powerwall was only pulling 0.02kW. When the powerwall is fully charged there is no demand on mine either. During the night period I can't isolate the grid synching demand from the powerwall as the home is being supplied by the grid and most of the time there is quite a heavy load, charging the Model S, immersion heaters etc, plus charging the powerwall, and even when not, there are two deep freezes and some fridges which always demand at least 0.3kW.
 
Hi John, I've been meaning to reply but got diverted by a conversation with @power.saver. Your 'background' powerwall demand during the day looks like an average of about 0.01kWh per half hour or 0.02kWh. Have I mis-read the graphs? Mine is 4 times that. I'd be much happier if my powerwall was only pulling 0.02kW. When the powerwall is fully charged there is no demand on mine either. During the night period I can't isolate the grid synching demand from the powerwall as the home is being supplied by the grid and most of the time there is quite a heavy load, charging the Model S, immersion heaters etc, plus charging the powerwall, and even when not, there are two deep freezes and some fridges which always demand at least 0.3kW.
Mike,
There's something weird with the Octopus graphics as the kWh scale shows 0, 0.1, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 but yes, that's the consumption per half hour (the smart meter reporting interval) and my measured mains consumption according to my older smart meter ranges from 0, if surplus solar energy is being exported, to 0.03kWh per 1/2 hour in the night. As I noted earlier, the period with higher mains consumption is during the 00.30 to 04.30 window when my PW is set to do off-peak charging if it thinks it is necessary. Daily consumption is ranging between about 0.5 kWh if there is significant export of surplus solar generation to 0.8 kWh when there is no surplus solar generation. The latter indicates an average power consumption of 0.033 kWh per hour or 0.017 kWh per half hour.
 
In ether case, the tariff you are on should denote how much per kVAR (pronounced kay-varr or kilo-varr) you should pay, and it should be a line item on your bill. At least looking through SCE (Southern California utility), only larger (20 kW + peak demand) commercial rates typically charge for kVAR, and there's a bit of slop (you don't need to be 100% resistive load). It is pretty much unheard of to charge residential customers kVAR and (until recently) demand charges that commercial customers would normally be subject to.

Anyway, the above is US specific, although maybe handy when navigating your laws.

In the end, if you are being charged for kVAR, but not being properly billed for it (no kVAR line item on your bill, just an increase in kWh consumption which is not the correct way to bill for this), then that is a failure in the utility to properly bill you. If the utility does not have a specific kVAR rate listed in the tariff, or otherwise doesn't list reactive power charges in the tariff, then the utility is essentially charging you for something outside the bounds of the tariff.

Hi Jeremy

You information has been extremely useful. My energy contract and bill do not refer to any kVAR charges but my smart meter appears to be recording kVAR and adding it to the kVA hours charged. I have put this point to my contact at EDF, my energy supplier and I have just had an acknowledgement that my smart meter may have been incorrectly programmed. I'll know more by he end of the week. I think the ramifications of this are rippling up the management tree!

Your post was most useful in crystallising my thoughts on this. I'm cautiously optimistic now that I might be in line for a refund. Other posts here suggest that mine might not be the only incorrectly programmed meter...... The countrywide ramifications of this could be quite serious!
 
my smart meter appears to be recording kVAR and adding it to the kVA hours charged
Small notational note: VAR is reactive power, W is real power, and VA is apparent power. So you would add VAR and W to get VA, or add kVARh and kWh to get KVAh. And here "add" means addition as orthogonal vectors, so VA = sqrt(VAR^2 + W^2).

Edit: so if your tariff takes about charging for kVAh instead of kWh, then it is correct to include the reactive power. But if talks about kWh only, reactive power should be excluded.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Small notational note: VAR is reactive power, W is real power, and VA is apparent power.

Many thanks for the Correction, Wayne. I'm not an electrical engineer and I've had to do a lot of reading up to understand reactive power. My use of terminology is not quite what it should be - I'm learning all the time! My bills and contract refer to kWh, and since purely resistive power = volts x amps(I hope I'm right there) I rather assumed that VA would be the correct term and failed to check. Anyway, my use of your information seems to have had the desired effect with my energy supplier.

PS - I've now read up about how kVA differs from kW and you are, of course, quite correct!

Mike
 
Yes, the way I like to think about apparent, real, and reactive power is this:
Consider a wheelbarrow - you must lift up in order to move the goods forward. The lifting up doesn't actually move the goods, but you need it in order to move them (can't just drag on the ground).
Reactive power (VAR) is the lifting up, real power is you pushing forward moving the goods (watts), and apparent power is your entire effort (VA).
 
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Hi John, great video! You have exactly the same setup as me, including the Chameleon remote display. It is absolutely clear, and verified by EDF, that the Smart Meter records and charges for Reactive energy whereas the older meters do not. This is the reason for the energy difference. The Powerwall API shows that it consumes a lot of reactive power compared to real power while only synchronising with grid frequency and not drawing power to supply the home load. I'm not clear whether you have economy 7, or variable rate metering or a single tariff. The problem is obvious on the economy 7 ON-Peak rate where the powerwall says it's consuming less than 10 watts real power but my Chameleon shows a fairly steady 60-100watts power consumption.

However, the Powerwall also shows Reactive power values, which are often 100+ watts when less than 10 watts Real power is being consumed. The sign of the Reactive power value switches positive to negative on a second by second basis, indicating brief export as well as import. The two balance out over time. But my Smart meter is only set up to record Import so it doesn't take into account the power that is put back into the grid. Presumably if one had an export meter it would.

The Powerwall real power (10 watts) and reactive power (100watts) values give a Power Factor of about 0.1 or 10%. That is really bad. Most modern AC appliances have power factors of between 0.8 and 0.9 so you would probably not notice the additional consumption on your energy bill.

What is rather strange is that over 24 hours the Powerwall cumulative meter increase (from the API download) is almost identical to the increase on the Chameleon - it seems to be putting back the daytime reactive energy during the OFF-peak period when I'm demanding a lot of power to charge the Model S, the Powerwall and immersion heaters etc. from the grid. The net difference is close to zero, but it's loading the expensive ON-Peak metering.

John, your figure of £200 additional cost is a little higher than mine, as are your actual energy consumption figures. When I had the Smart meter installed I was on a tariff of nearly 25p ON-Peak but 4.9p OFF-Peak, the lowest OFF-Peak tariff I could get.I opted for this on the basis that if the Powerwall was generally supplying ALL the ON-Peak home demand it didn't matter what the tariff was. What I needed was the lowest OFF-Peak tariff. in fact the ON-Peak energy metered accounted for 25% of my total bill !! I've now got onto a 17p ON-Peak and 4.6p OFF-peak tariff, which reduces the excess to about £100 per year, so not quite so bad. However, we really should not have to pay for this peculiar byproduct of the way the Powerwall works.

John, you seem to be much better geared up with your Youtube videos etc than me and I'd be very happy if you could collate names and comments. I'm happy to help you with that where I can. I produced a detailed 'scientific' report to EDF on my findings and analysis, which you might be interested in. It's a fairly large pdf document. Is there a way of sending mail privately via this forum?

Mike
Thanks Mike, I will get on the case with names / etc. I will pull together another video with what we now know and see if that generates some more interest and activity.
I'm with Octopus Energy on their Agile tariff, when I made the video I was on their Go tariff 15p peak, 5p off-peak (4 hours).

The report would be ideal, yes to a copy of that please. Email info @ johntisbury.co.uk