Beware SMETS2 meters

[Dave101]

You might also be interested in my post on another thread about "leakage"

UK Only - Tesla Energy Plan/Octopus Energy

I'm happy that I didn't go ahead with this power plan. I had originally assumed that Tesla would tap into some solar generation forecasting to shift the solar export to the grid to later in the day and then, if necessary do some compensatory night time charging from the grid. The grid charging...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Dave101]

oops - that didn't work as planned! This is what I said on the other thread
An update a few weeks in! I seem to be losing about 1.6Kw per day, consistently. Yesterday is a good example. I generated 27 and used 10.2 in the house leaving a net of 16.8. 23.8 went to the grid and 8.6 came back from the Grid a net of 15.2. So, my reckoning, 1.6 has got "lost" in the battery. I don't know if the battery started and ended the day at the same level. However, I have done the same calculation for the first 2 weeks of March and the days show 1.5, 1.6, 1.5, 1.7, 1.4, 1.8, 1.7, 1.4, 1.6, 1.6, 1.6, 1.5, 1.6. It is uncannily similar!

This suggests that I am "leaking" about 17.5p per day = about £65 per year.

My net export in this 14 day period is 34Kw, worth £3.80.

Whenever I look at the App during the day I seem to see random patterns of distribution of power is all directions!

I am beginning to wonder about the increased impact on the battery of power coming and and out so much more frequently.

Any observations?

 

[JohnRatsey]

An update a few weeks in! I seem to be losing about 1.6Kw per day, consistently. Yesterday is a good example. I generated 27 and used 10.2 in the house leaving a net of 16.8. 23.8 went to the grid and 8.6 came back from the Grid a net of 15.2. So, my reckoning, 1.6 has got "lost" in the battery. I don't know if the battery started and ended the day at the same level.

Any observations?

Don't forget there's the battery round trip energy efficiency which Tesla claims to be 90% plus the operating overhead of the battery + gateway (this overhead might be included in Tesla's number under the test operating condition). So your 1.5kW/day is quite plausible. Over three years my battery has imported 6641.540 kWh and exported 5,666.740 kWh which is an overall efficiency of about 85% with the battery getting through about 1/2 a charge cycle per day (a very easy life). You can see the aggregate data for your battery by going to https://xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx/api/meters/aggregates (xxx being your gateway's IP address) but first you need to log in to the gateway at its basic address with your email address and password (which defaults to the last digits of the gateway serial number) before you can get to the other data.

If I value the "lost" energy at the price of cheap night charging or solar export (both around 5p/kWh then my battery costs me about £16/year for the benefit of getting most of my electricy for about 5p/kWh. That battery overhead is a lot less than the 25p/day of the Octopus Go tariff.

 

[NIMO]

I had my L+G E470 100mm meter exchanged on 30th Nov and like everyone else a Kaifa MA120 fitted. Has resolved my phantom grid draw, first time I've ever seen 0w from the In House Display whilst on 100% battery power. Now just waiting for the compensation. Meter had already connected to Octopus and viewable on my online account after a couple of days. Very pleased to get this resolved after 18 months or raising it as a problem.

Hi JohnTisbury,

I have been watching your youtube videos and also reading this thread as I have a similar issue with Powerwall 2, drawing continuous grid power. I am in Sydney, Australia and my Powerwall is recently installed on 01-Mar-21. I have reported this problem with Tesla and my Electricity provider AGL, but did not get any positive outcome so far while AGL has offer support to investigate with Tesla. After reading the thread I understand that for you and as well as mikemillar the issue is resolved by replacing the Smart Meter. However, it was interesting to note from one of the response from mikemillar - "Tesla have been able to reduce the power loss factor to a figure of 1 or below, or what is more commonly known as ‘unity’." and also "Tesla have already 'adjusted individual installations to reduce reactive power demand'. ".

But it looks like for both you and mikemillar Tesla did not do any adjustment and the replacement of Smart Meter has served the purpose in both cases. I have one question here. In my case the additional power drawn from thread similarly to yours are captured by Smart Meter (EDMI ATLAS MK10D) as well as my SolarEdge App which is reading from the SolarEdge modbus meter. So, even if I insist my Electricity provider (AGL) to replace the smart meter, do I need to have some setting changes in the SolarEdge modbus meter as well?

I have made a presentation to explain the issues to Tesla and AGL and sharing with you. Will be looking forward for your comments.

 

[NIMO]

I've recently had a SMETS2 meter installed and am starting to have the same concerns as you.
See below the reading from my smart meter from a day where the Powerwall supplied power for the whole day...

View attachment 521367


Below is the powerwall import details from the same day...

View attachment 521366



and Import details below from the Solaredge inverter for the same day. (the import is correct, but consumption is not correct as it is not setup to be aware of my other array and the powerwall)....

View attachment 521369


The powerwall and Solaredge have readings fairly similar around 0.3-0.4kWh, if these readings are to be believed it means i'm being charged for approx 1kWh a day i don't use, my consumption has never been below 1.4kWh a day since i've had the meter installed.

@mikemillar does this tie in with the sort of readings you are seeing?

Have you got your issue resolved? Like mikemillar and JohnTisbury both got this resolved by changing the Smart Meter. I am interested to know as I also have SolarEdge Inverter like yours.

 

[JohnTisbury]

A quick update after my meter exchange on 30th Nov 2020 to the Kaifa MA120 electric meter, the gas meter was also replaced at the same time. My gas meter has not been commissioned since then. AES (on behalf of Octopus have been out 3 times to attempt commission it - each time failing to do so. They replaced the gas meter on the last visit and still it won't join the electric meter. Another visit is planned tomorrow, Monday 24th May. I believe they will swap out both meters this time.
Anyone else having issues getting a gas meter to join / commissioned to the Kaifa MA120 electric meter?
My gas meter is located on the same outside wall as the electric meter and is less than 6 feet away.

 

[Testicle]

A quick update after my meter exchange on 30th Nov 2020 to the Kaifa MA120 electric meter, the gas meter was also replaced at the same time. My gas meter has not been commissioned since then. AES (on behalf of Octopus have been out 3 times to attempt commission it - each time failing to do so. They replaced the gas meter on the last visit and still it won't join the electric meter. Another visit is planned tomorrow, Monday 24th May. I believe they will swap out both meters this time.
Anyone else having issues getting a gas meter to join / commissioned to the Kaifa MA120 electric meter?
My gas meter is located on the same outside wall as the electric meter and is less than 6 feet away.

I also have a Kaifa MA120 electric meter with a gas meter installed on May 27th. 2021. The SW | WAN | HAN & GAS green LEDs all flash every ~5 seconds. However, neither the Gas Meter nor the IHD6 display are connecting. This is on a system with 6kWpk Solar, a SolarEdge inverter and three PW2s.
On the same installation day, I had the adjacent property's electricity meter "upgraded" to the Kaifa MA120; this also won't connect to its IHD6. This system has ~3kWpk Solar, a Sunny-Boy inverter and two PW2s. I'm pretty unimpressed so far. The UK government is spending a *lot* of our tax pounds on this crap.

 

[Dazboj]

My Kaifa hasn't connected to the IHD, however Octopus are receiving the readings (After an initial 2 weeks).

 

[ARRJAY]

My experience with Octopus has been much different. Astonishingly, they installed a Landis & Gyr E470 100mm on 30th November last year!

Whilst I was unaware of the meter incompatibility issue, I had previously asked them whether they had any issues with Tesla Powerwall. I also advised them, as part of my Outgoing Octopus application, that I was having a Tesla Powerwall installed.

After the installation of my Powerwall, I noticed the differing grid readings on the In-House Display (IHD) and the Tesla app together with 100w-150w readings on the IHD when the Powerwall was charging or discharging.

Initially, Octopus were helpful and indicated that a replacement meter would be installed quickly. However, three undertakings to arrange an installation date were not fulfilled.

I am still waiting, over 5 weeks after my initial contact, for them to set a date.

Octopus now advised that the firm they use for meter installations has no Khaifa (sic) meters in stock.

Still no fully working smart meters and IHD after 5 months. EDMI ES-10B electric meter connected but EDMI GS-60B gas meter is not giving smart readings or connected to IHD. After finally receiving an electricity bill SEG credit incorrect. Export meter details on my bill and account still showing old L&G meter !!.

Octopus have not responding to emails since 14/5/21. Have contacted the CEO for the second time. All so unnecessary.

 

[Solar1920]

My L&G meters were swapped out in December for Kaifa meters but the engineer couldn’t get them working and nothing has worked (smart) since then, so I don’t know if my leakage issue has been fixed (i’m Assuming it has), i’ve been waiting since December for a return visit (had two cancellations), meter man is booked to come next week.
I’ve had no electric bill since December and one estimated gas bill, i’m refusing to give manual readings anymore.
I had assumed my setup would be ideal for smart meters, I’m in a city with good mobile signal and the gas and electric meters are twelve inches apart (the gas meter has never communicated since the original install in Dec 2019), if they can’t get mine working the install failure rate must be pretty high!

 

[3fazeac]

My Kaifa hasn't connected to the IHD, however Octopus are receiving the readings (After an initial 2 weeks).

Dazboj - octopus installed a Kaifa MA120 meter at my sister's place however, no manual was supplied. Just wondered if you were given a user guide? I'm trying to get the physical meter setup to display what I want. If you can help - it will be much appreciated. (Octopus not much help currently.) Thanks.

 

[Dazboj]

Dazboj - octopus installed a Kaifa MA120 meter at my sister's place however, no manual was supplied. Just wondered if you were given a user guide? I'm trying to get the physical meter setup to display what I want. If you can help - it will be much appreciated. (Octopus not much help currently.) Thanks.

No sorry, I don’t think they supply manuals for the meters. I haven’t even touched mine since being installed.

 

[phil4]

I had a Kaifa fitted last year. Since then this year it's been "dropping" the odd half hours reading. This prompted me to email Octopus who retrieved it and all was good.

April this year, the same occurs, but despite emailing Octopus they can't retrieve the readings. So I've had no electricity bill since then. They're now threatening to move me back to a standard tariff daily.

On the basis they get half hourly gas readings without issue, and that the gas meter uses the comms part on top of the electricity meter, this suggests to me that the problem lies not with the comms, but with the Kaifa.

 

[Cuban8]

I had a Kaifa fitted last year. Since then this year it's been "dropping" the odd half hours reading. This prompted me to email Octopus who retrieved it and all was good.

April this year, the same occurs, but despite emailing Octopus they can't retrieve the readings. So I've had no electricity bill since then. They're now threatening to move me back to a standard tariff daily.

On the basis they get half hourly gas readings without issue, and that the gas meter uses the comms part on top of the electricity meter, this suggests to me that the problem lies not with the comms, but with the Kaifa.

A Kaifa meter firmware update is due to be rolled out this month.

 

[Solar1920]

All my issues are finally resolved!!!!! I've had my Kaifa meter replaced with a Landis E470 (i think this is a version 2), now both my Electricity and Gas are showing on-line, my IHD is working and the phantom power draw is gone.
I only issue i have is the IHD is showing the wrong tariff, but hey, after over a year and a half of problems i can live with that!

 

[Neil_dsb]

A quick update after my meter exchange on 30th Nov 2020 to the Kaifa MA120 electric meter, the gas meter was also replaced at the same time. My gas meter has not been commissioned since then. AES (on behalf of Octopus have been out 3 times to attempt commission it - each time failing to do so. They replaced the gas meter on the last visit and still it won't join the electric meter. Another visit is planned tomorrow, Monday 24th May. I believe they will swap out both meters this time.
Anyone else having issues getting a gas meter to join / commissioned to the Kaifa MA120 electric meter?
My gas meter is located on the same outside wall as the electric meter and is less than 6 feet away.

my as Gas meter has never reported a reading with the Kaifa even after it was replaced?

 

[JohnRatsey]

Octopus invited me to apply to have my SMETS1 meters upgraded to SMETS2 and I said OK but make sure that the electricity meter was compatible with the Powerwall battery. One reason for agreeing the change was that my half hourly gas consumption had stopped showing up as of June. The installer came on Thursday and checked with his supervisor who said use the Kaifa MA120. So that's what I got (I didn't argue given the note above about a firmware update) and, although Octopus said up to two weeks for the data to appear online in my account, it's already configured and working. Yesterday's electricity consumption looks consistent with what I saw previously so it appears that the old problem has been fixed.

Data for both meters were showing up on the IHD before the installer left. He's been doing these installations for over 5 years and reckons he knows how to set things up.

 

[mw963]

Octopus invited me to apply to have my SMETS1 meters upgraded to SMETS2 and I said OK but make sure that the electricity meter was compatible with the Powerwall battery. One reason for agreeing the change was that my half hourly gas consumption had stopped showing up as of June. The installer came on Thursday and checked with his supervisor who said use the Kaifa MA120. So that's what I got (I didn't argue given the note above about a firmware update) and, although Octopus said up to two weeks for the data to appear online in my account, it's already configured and working. Yesterday's electricity consumption looks consistent with what I saw previously so it appears that the old problem has been fixed.

Data for both meters were showing up on the IHD before the installer left. He's been doing these installations for over 5 years and reckons he knows how to set things up.

I'm a bit late to this party, but in August Octopus put in a Landis and Gyr 470 in anticipation of my getting smart tariffs (Go Faster in my case) with a forthcoming installation of PV and Powerwall 2.

The latter was installed last Thursday (the PV went in at the beginning of September) and since the battery arrived I've been leaking 80 W on average the whole time. Very relieved to find this thread. Tesla helpline knew almost at once what the problem was, asked for a photo of the meter, and confirmed that the L&G 470 is the only one with a known compatibility problem.

Contacted Greg Jackson direct last night requesting a meter swap and am awaiting a response. Useful to have this thread as back up.

Particularly galling as Western Power are being very slow to issue an export confirmation so to add insult to injury I'm not being paid for the leakage.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this.....

 

[mw963]

Just as an afterthought - presumably whilst waiting for a solution to the meter problem there is no reason why I couldn't throw the isolator switch between meter and home system to cut off the latter's access to the grid when I get up in the morning, and then reconnect last thing at night so that the battery can charge up off peak but not leak the rest of the time....?

I wouldn't want to do it too often but if it's only for a few weeks while waiting for a new meter....?

 

[rickpoisson]

Hey all, it appears I might be a victim of this issue now. Had a 3-phase smart meter - EDMI ES-30B - fitted to 3-phase supply. Installer has just completed a 12kW solar and 3xPowerwall 2 setup and I've had the ability to monitor for a week or so.

I now observe phantom grid draw (as seen on the IHD, octopus billing and smart meter log) of around 250wH when the house is fully operational off the solar/powerwall 2s This, at current peak rates, works out at around £500 a year. Not ideal....

Information above is very useful and I've asked my installer to contact Tesla regarding the issue. However, in reading the specs of the meter - it is determined a commercial/industrial unit vs a domestic unit and the information states:

Measured Values
• Active energy import (Wh)
• Reactive energy import (varh)
• Active energy export (Wh)
• Reactive energy export (varh)

I wonder if, as it's setup or delivered from the manufacturer as an industrial unit, it's sending the Reactive energy import to Octopus vs Active energy import and therefore showing a delta against the Powerwall monitoring. Not sure if anyone else has one of these meters with a similar issue but I'll report back how I get on.

Might be as simple as altering what measured value goes back to Octopus - fingers crossed.