Wiki Super Heavy/Starship - General Development Discussion

[ecarfan]

I doubt that Elon decided to make the “BFR 2018” design (as that diagram labels it) slightly taller primarily so that it is taller than the Saturn V (or SLS Block 2). I bet that there were sound engineering reasons to increase the height compared to what Elon showed at the 2017 IAC.

I’m still a bit disappointed that the BFR 2016 design had to be scaled back so much, but again I’m sure there were very sound reasons for why that change was made.

 

[mongo]

I doubt that Elon decided to make the “BFR 2018” design (as that diagram labels it) slightly taller primarily so that it is taller than the Saturn V (or SLS Block 2). I bet that there were sound engineering reasons to increase the height compared to what Elon showed at the 2017 IAC.

I’m still a bit disappointed that the BFR 2016 design had to be scaled back so much, but again I’m sure there were very sound reasons for why that change was made.

Not sure 2018 is really a down size. Depending on the accuracy of the image, BFS 2018 is taller than ITS. In general, most of the ship is fuel, so if the engines are better, the rocket should get smaller. My thought is that they keep designing for the same payload capacity as they are iterating.

 

[dhanson865]

I doubt that Elon decided to make the “BFR 2018” design (as that diagram labels it) slightly taller primarily so that it is taller than the Saturn V (or SLS Block 2). I bet that there were sound engineering reasons to increase the height compared to what Elon showed at the 2017 IAC.

I’m still a bit disappointed that the BFR 2016 design had to be scaled back so much, but again I’m sure there were very sound reasons for why that change was made.

If you look at the 2016 design it was much bigger, it got smaller for budget reasons (cost in dollars) not engineering issues.

Most likely they just found more efficiency or tweaked the dollar numbers slightly and moved the size back up.

The "sound engineering reasons" is "bigger is better".

 

[Grendal]

SpaceX has a very large "tent" near where the BFR manufacturing building is at the port. Here is an article showing some equipment parked outside the tent. This is the same tent where the picture was taken of the car and the carbon fiber layup tool.
SpaceX moving fast on Mars rocket development, BFR tent spied with more tooling
More on the tent:
Pauline Acalin on Twitter
SpaceX’s giant, temporary tent currently housing the company’s BFR/BFS fabrication tooling while their permanent facility awaits construction a couple miles away.

 

[ecarfan]

SpaceX execs bullish on BFR as Mars rocket test facilities expand in Texas [photos]

Article focuses on Gywnne Shotwell’s increasingly confident public statements that BFR testing will begin in 2019 and that the BFR will take humans to Mars and Earth point-to-point (EP2P) sub-orbital commercial transport flights “within a decade”.

 

[Grendal]

Josh Brost of SpaceX at the Humans to Mars Conference: As early as the first half of next year we’ll start doing vertical takeoff and landing tests of our first BFR upper stage.
Jeff Foust on Twitter
Other comments from Brost are:
We’re focused on getting people to Mars affordably; let others solve how they live when they get there.
We have a different take on affordability. We have to have cost structures to eventually allow millions to go to space.
Our approach minimizes unique elements with BFR and in-space refueling; with reusability to lower costs.

 

[ecarfan]

Josh Brost of SpaceX at the Humans to Mars Conference: As early as the first half of next year we’ll start doing vertical takeoff and landing tests of our first BFR upper stage.

What amazes me about that news is not so much the timeframe, but the fact that the BFS (the spaceship upper stage) will be tested before the BFR booster first stage! Elon has said, if I recall correctly, that he thinks SpaceX has a pretty good sense of how to build the first stage but the upper stage that will carry humans and cargo will be even more of a challenge, for obvious reasons.

But now SpaceX is saying that the upper stage will be built and tested first! And for short test “hops” I assume will they be using the just the two smaller centrally mounted Raptors that are optimized for landings, and not the 4 Raptor vacuum engines as shown in this slide from Elon’s 2017 IAC presentation.

 

[oneday]

I wonder what kind of gimbal angles those engines will be capable of.

 

[Kandiru]

A human will get an entire lifetime's allowable dose of radiation on a round trip to Mars. We need to stop thinking small and prepare the automated craft for Alpha Centauri, the four rocky planets in our solar system have been investigated well enough. Unfortunately space is also politicized and NASA get short-sighted directives, the tax-paid hoes on the Hill need the vulgus to associate milestones in space exploration to their names.
I can see Elon displacing Government Motors in the next 10 years if he continues to launch sats for Langley.

 

[ecarfan]

I wonder what kind of gimbal angles those engines will be capable of.

Apparently enough for landing on Earth or Mars, at a minimum.

 

[ecarfan]

I can see Elon displacing Government Motors in the next 10 years if he continues to launch sats for Langley.

At this point I set a very high probability on SpaceX becoming the dominant space launch service within two years. BO is far behind, and no government agency can possibly catch up because they don’t have the same driving sense of mission that Elon haS.

 

[ls7corvete]

A human will get an entire lifetime's allowable dose of radiation on a round trip to Mars. We need to stop thinking small and prepare the automated craft for Alpha Centauri, the four rocky planets in our solar system have been investigated well enough. Unfortunately space is also politicized and NASA get short-sighted directives, the tax-paid hoes on the Hill need the vulgus to associate milestones in space exploration to their names.
I can see Elon displacing Government Motors in the next 10 years if he continues to launch sats for Langley.

We dont have any significant installations in LEO, L5 or the moon/mars. I think we need to focus on those first, especially with SpaceX. Let Nasa look and observe, we can use BFR and Falcon for building useful structures.

 

[Routybouty]

The timelines sound great, surely the Raptor engines must be coming along well? I haven't seen any updates on those for a long time.

 

[Grendal]

The timelines sound great, surely the Raptor engines must be coming along well? I haven't seen any updates on those for a long time.

I expect the Raptor engine is very thoroughly tested by now. We have not heard much about it for a while now. Just comments that tests are going well from SpaceX people.

 

[Grendal]

Great article on the implications of BFR:
Dawn of a True Space Age is Near | NextBigFuture.com

 

[Grendal]

A cutaway made by nobiwon on Reddit.

r/SpaceXLounge - BFS Cutaway Diagram OC [Graphic]
Updated version:

 

[ecarfan]

Great diagram to spur speculation and the imagination.

I noted an error: it says ”three smaller Raptors to land back on solid surface”. That is incorrect. See my post upthread, there are only two “Sea Level” engines for landing. And I suspect the four large vacuum Raptors will also be used for landing on Mars since the atmospheric pressure is so low.

 

[ecarfan]

Some BFR news from Elon, via tweet, posted at r/spacex by u/failion

 

[Grendal]

News upcoming on BFR:

 

[Grendal]

BFR's are shown in the National Geographic Mars series season 2. At 20 seconds in: