Bi directional charging

[gdallas]

Hi guys,

Contemplating having a solar panel array installed on my house, perhaps even with battery storage. However, I was wondering if the model 3 face-lift was perhaps capable of bidirectional charging or not? Or if it ever will be. And could therefore become my home storage solution?

 

[Limey]

No Tesla's are.

Some cars like the KiaEv6 have it.

You need a home battery and inverter solution, because you need to harness the sun during the day when the car is likely not there.

 

[PITA]

The key for us is two Tesla Powerwalls at home, because these hold 27kWh of solar energy or low cost grid power, and can discharge at 10kW continuously.

This means, even if the car is away from home, you can still come home, plug in, and take that stored solar energy into the car at a 7kW wall charger. Nothing is wasted.

The obvious downside is that I can't then move this Power back into the house, from the car.

But with a Solar Array, and two Powerwalls, plus a Gateway isolation unit, it is a really good setup.

 

[PITA]

The challenge with Vehicle to Home (V2H) is the discharge rate capability.

If all you can do, is move power from the car at 2kW on an extension lead... as an example... what's the use in that? Except a novelty to boil a kettle in a blackout.

It would need to be integrated into your homes central wiring Consumer Board. With high capability discharge (like 10kW)... so you could run your house off it.

In my opinion... leave the car to do it's car job. Let home batteries do their job. It works.

 

[init6]

From the manual:

CAUTION
Do not use the Battery as a stationary power source. Doing so voids the warranty.

 

[MovingSouth]

Hi guys,

Contemplating having a solar panel array installed on my house, perhaps even with battery storage. However, I was wondering if the model 3 face-lift was perhaps capable of bidirectional charging or not? Or if it ever will be. And could therefore become my home storage solution?

Chademo supports bidirectional transfer and there has been at least one trial of Vehicle to Home in the UK involving Octopus (and others) using Leafs, which use the Chademo connection.

My understanding is that a future (the next?) version of the CCS standard (CCS 3.0) will support V2H. (Combined Charging System - Wikipedia)

 

[RichardTheKing]

Hi guys,

Contemplating having a solar panel array installed on my house, perhaps even with battery storage. However, I was wondering if the model 3 face-lift was perhaps capable of bidirectional charging or not? Or if it ever will be. And could therefore become my home storage solution?

That will be wonderful if that will be possible, I am on my way to get a 4kw solar panel with a 8 kWh battery, then that could help during the summer or if there is a serious shortages breakdown in the country, also I can charge the battery during the Go rate during the winter and get back the kWh during the day from the MY as my 8kWh battery

 

[dcsh]

No Tesla's are.

Some cars like the KiaEv6 have it.

You need a home battery and inverter solution, because you need to harness the sun during the day when the car is likely not there.

Sounds like one Tesla had the ability at one point:

Tesla promises cars that connect to the grid, even if Elon Musk doesn’t really want them to

Electric vehicles are a potentially powerful untapped source of energy.

www.theverge.com

Musk’s comments during Battery Day also suggest that the company doesn’t think its customers are hungry enough for vehicle-to-grid capabilities yet. “Very few people would actually use vehicle-to-grid,” Musk said during Battery Day. “We actually had that with the original Roadster. We had vehicle-to-grid capabilities — nobody used it.”

 

[SageBrush]

Tesla V2G does not currently exist and will not be retro-fitted. As for the future, that depends on demand. I think it comes down to whether people can charge during the day when they are at work, and they want to be off-grid at night.

For now that is mostly a corner case.

 

[MrMoonUK]

It annoyed me during a recent 3 day power cut that I couldn’t use the 100kwh+ sitting in my cars on the drive to run the house

 

[PITA]

It annoyed me during a recent 3 day power cut that I couldn’t use the 100kwh+ sitting in my cars on the drive to run the house

Which is why we installed the Powerwalls... cost me about £15,000 to set up, plus the M3P EV Cost... but it's still cheaper than buying a new Model S

May as well get the house kitted out as well

 

[RichardTheKing]

It annoyed me during a recent 3 day power cut that I couldn’t use the 100kwh+ sitting in my cars on the drive to run the house

Do you think that it is possible to buy 2 kWh inverter and plug it to the Tesla? Or what is the max power output from the cigarette lighter?

 

[RichardTheKing]

Which is why we installed the Powerwalls... cost me about £15,000 to set up, plus the M3P EV Cost... but it's still cheaper than buying a new Model S

May as well get the house kitted out as well

You can do the same for £9k with a non Tesla battery and 12 pv.

 

[PITA]

You can do the same for £9k with a non Tesla battery and 12 pv.

When you say "do the same for £9k"

What system, and specification are you referring to?

It's a very easy statement to make...

 

[AndrewGR]

Do you think that it is possible to buy 2 kWh inverter and plug it to the Tesla? Or what is the max power output from the cigarette lighter?

I guess you mean a 2kW inverter. To produce 230V that would need an input current of around 200 amps at 12 volts. The 12 volt socket is probably limited to 10 amps so useless for producing anything like 2 kW. As already mentioned, drawing power from the main battery other than for running the car, even if possible, would invalidate the battery warranty.

 

[cryo]

I believe when Sandy Munro stripped the original Tesla 3 system he stated that all the electronics for a vehicle-to-grid system are in place and the charging board is duplicated (redundancy) but the vehicle-to-grid is not implemented. Possibly a software change in the future?

 

[btc1k]

You can do the same for £9k with a non Tesla battery and 12 pv.

27kWh storage and 12 pv's for £9k?

Sold! please let us know where we can get this, sounds like an absolute bargain

 

[PITA]

27kWh storage and 12 pv's for £9k?

Sold! please let us know where we can get this, sounds like an absolute bargain

Indeed... and I would just add...

- 27 kWh storage
- 10 kW discharge capability
- Storm Watch backup mode
- Gateway isolation & fuse board connections
- IP Rated for outdoor use
- Remote scheduling control
- Battery Management System for heating & cooling
- Full installation, commissioning & paperwork

Plus a working 12 panel solar array with inverter? ... for £9k

I've since found out, by the way, that not all Solar Panels are accepted for Export Tariff or DNO Approval. So be careful how 'cheap' you go.

 

[RichardTheKing]

When you say "do the same for £9k"

What system, and specification are you referring to?

It's a very easy statement to make...

Hello Pita,
This is what is backup my comment, what are yours?

I am going to Solar Panel, and I have done my homework and unfortunately, I cannot consider anymore the Tesla battery because they are too expensive, and I cannot see how I will recover the money in time. Then I have found a good compromise with In2gr8ted company (www.in2gr8tedsolutions.co.uk) with some Good Material. I did have the choice of PV/Inverter/Battery I could use, and the Guy (Paul G) was very useful to give me all the informations I need and answering all my questions. We have exchange more than 10 emails and spend 2 to 3 hours (4 phone call) then I can get anything I need to understand what I need. I have decided to go for:

• 12 Solar Panels: Tiger Mono-Facial N-Type All black 400-watt form JINKO Solar (400Wh - Power output warranty Year 30 year at 87.4% - Maximum power efficiency at 20.96% - Lowest Temperature Coefficient (PMAX) at -0.34%/⁰C) - 25 years product warranty
• 1 Hybrid Inverter 5Kw: GivEnergy GIV-HY5.0 – 10 years product warranty – IP65 – Compatible with Octopus - Flexible rate tariff compatible - Dual MPPT - WIFI or/and 3G connectivity - (https://givenergy.co.uk/pdf/Version-2021/hybridinverter.pdf)
• 1 Battery 8.6Kwh: GiveEnergy Hybrid - 10 years unlimited cycle guarantee - 100% depth of discharge (https://givenergy.co.uk/pdf/Version-2021/Bat8.2.pdf)

There is an interesting YouTube video about the GivEnergy system:

it is not new, but it is quite self-explanatory, and the guy is pretty cool (from Yorkshire)

The overall bill will be £9960, and I will ROI (return on investment in year 9). I am only living in the country for 6 months, but I was living 100% in UK my model will give years 6 instead of year 9

I have compare the price between ShellEnergy, OctopusGo and EDFGoELectric and The overall cost is pretty much similar between EDF and Octopus Go (the night cost is lower, but the Daily rate and the day cost are higher)
The difference as far I know is OctopusGo give me a fixe price for 1 year and for EDF no fixed price is mentioned on the quote. So not sure what will the tariff in few month time.

I think I am going to GO with OctopusGo

 

[RichardTheKing]

Indeed... and I would just add...

- 27 kWh storage
- 10 kW discharge capability
- Storm Watch backup mode
- Gateway isolation & fuse board connections
- IP Rated for outdoor use
- Remote scheduling control
- Battery Management System for heating & cooling
- Full installation, commissioning & paperwork

Plus a working 12 panel solar array with inverter? ... for £9k

I've since found out, by the way, that not all Solar Panels are accepted for Export Tariff or DNO Approval. So be careful how 'cheap' you go.

27KWh Storage must cost a fortune! As far I have understood with the TeslaPowerwall you cannot discharge all for your own use. but you can confirm or not.
- 2 Tesla powerwall battery perhaps for what price (no solar panel, etc...): £16k+. how can you ROI that type of money?. I would be please to get more information from you guys - how you get all that investment back in UK? or you are just wasting cash