Biden administration wants to standardize electric vehicle charging, like gas stations

[Mockingbird]

(CNN) — Every gas station is essentially the same -- the nozzle fits every vehicle, the pump takes common credit cards and the price is posted on a big sign. The Biden administration wants to make electric vehicle charging stations a lot more like that.

Its new proposed rule would require the half-million electric vehicle chargers it plans to fund to be interoperable, similar to the way a gas pump works with any vehicle. Charging stations funded under the federal program would also be open to anyone -- prohibiting any membership requirements -- and set a common standard for payment and other technologies. The charging stations would be built along America's highways.

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Biden administration wants to standardize electric vehicle charging, like gas stations

Every gas station is essentially the same -- the nozzle fits every vehicle, the pump takes common credit cards and the price is posted on a big sign. The Biden administration wants to make electric vehicle charging stations a lot more like that.

amp.cnn.com

 

[Sophias_dad]

About f'n time.

 

[bruce4000]

That would be ideal but gas stations in the US have different size nozzles for gas and diesel, and 3 grades of gas octane so having stations with CCS and Tesla connectors is not unreasonable. Agree should be able to use any credit card and not have to join a network.

 

[Mockingbird]

That would be ideal but gas stations in the US have different size nozzles for gas and diesel, and 3 grades of gas octane so having stations with CCS and Tesla connectors is not unreasonable. Agree should be able to use any credit card and not have to join a network.

Do Tesla EVs run on different electricity than do other EVs?

 

[TunaBug]

That would be ideal but gas stations in the US have different size nozzles for gas and diesel, and 3 grades of gas octane so having stations with CCS and Tesla connectors is not unreasonable. Agree should be able to use any credit card and not have to join a network.

I think that your analogy does not hold up.

Different nozzles are to enforce that somebody isn't pumping diesel into their gasoline tank, and it's done that way because the connector is fundamentally stupid and cannot negotiate or even error check between pump and vehicle. What that's analogous to is on the Tesla connector where the car/charger negotiate whether the power pins are going to carry AC or DCFC. And on CCS it's "negotiated" by presence (or lack) of the outrigger that carries the DCFC.

What we're talking about here is completely different: Imagine if Ford had a round nozzle for gas, and GM a square nozzle, and BMW a triangular nozzle, all for the purpose of carrying exactly the same fuel but locking you into a specific fuel retailer.

 

[AdamHLG]

Agree should be able to use any credit card and not have to join a network.

I mean, if we're gonna make a system for the future, time to get rid of credit cards. Let it be a similar system to Superchargers and EZ-PASS. Register once, and just plug and charge and it gets billed to the customer automatically. Time to think forward.

I just saw Coldplay at MetLife Stadium in NJ. MetLife is all Apple Pay, no cash accepted, and credit cards are the backup. Credit cards are on the way out. Let's accelerate that process.

 

[Mockingbird]

I mean, if we're gonna make a system for the future, time to get rid of credit cards. Let it be a similar system to Superchargers and EZ-PASS. Register once, and just plug and charge and it gets billed to the customer automatically. Time to think forward.

I just saw Coldplay at MetLife Stadium in NJ. MetLife is all Apple Pay, no cash accepted, and credit cards are the backup. Credit cards are on the way out. Let's accelerate that process.

You mean like this...

 

[Tam]

That would be ideal but gas stations in the US have different size nozzles for gas and diesel, and 3 grades of gas octane so having stations with CCS and Tesla connectors is not unreasonable. Agree should be able to use any credit card and not have to join a network.

It's possible to have a uniform connector; China, EU, Australia/New Zealand did it so could we. That would reduce costs for all parties.

Since we don't have one, maybe the government would open up a standardization committee with BOTH scientists and laypeople to select criteria like:

Current popularity: Tesla
Cost: Tesla (it's cheap to stack available chargers into a Supercharger)
Look: Tesla (nice thin cable with small plug/receptacle)
Speed: CCS (future proof, currently Hyundai can do 800V, 350kW)

 

[TunaBug]

I mean, if we're gonna make a system for the future, time to get rid of credit cards. Let it be a similar system to Superchargers and EZ-PASS. Register once, and just plug and charge and it gets billed to the customer automatically. Time to think forward.

I just saw Coldplay at MetLife Stadium in NJ. MetLife is all Apple Pay, no cash accepted, and credit cards are the backup. Credit cards are on the way out. Let's accelerate that process.

It's funny how people interpret things differently. I thought the ask was that we not be required to join somebody's specific payment processor or other kind of "club" in order to charge. You thought the ask was that we be able to carry pieces of plastic in our pockets.

But I think you do have a point: does requiring a credit card reader make sense in 2022? Why not also require that the charger accept dollar bills? How about coins? Pennies too?

I am a fan of prohibiting systems where I have to have an EA membership or a ChargePoint membership, or ApplePay vs GooglePay. But there's an alternative that we've had forever and for some reason does not bother me: I'm not bothered by being able to use any payment method I want when filling at the gas station even though I could get a discount if I used the store-branded charge card. E.g. everybody pays the same for Shell gas on any credit card, but you get a discount for using a Shell credit card. Similarly, MetLife ought to take GooglePay, but I've got nothing against them giving a five cent discount on beer if you use ApplePay.

 

[AdamHLG]

You mean like this...

Exactly !

 

[pb2000]

I mean, if we're gonna make a system for the future, time to get rid of credit cards. Let it be a similar system to Superchargers and EZ-PASS. Register once, and just plug and charge and it gets billed to the customer automatically. Time to think forward.

I just saw Coldplay at MetLife Stadium in NJ. MetLife is all Apple Pay, no cash accepted, and credit cards are the backup. Credit cards are on the way out. Let's accelerate that process.

Apple pay is just a digital version of your existing physical cards, not a replacement system. Many places in the world upgraded to NFC Chip+PIN cards over a decade ago, so the novelty of Apple/Google pay was never really there.

I like Tesla's system insofar as it normally just works, but the ability to add additional payment cards based on driver profile would be nice.

 

[Mockingbird]

It's possible to have a uniform connector; China, EU, Australia/New Zealand did it so could we. That would reduce costs for all parties.

Since we don't have one, maybe the government would open up a standardization committee with BOTH scientists and laypeople to select criteria like:

Current popularity: Tesla
Cost: Tesla (it's cheap to stack available chargers into a Supercharger)
Look: Tesla (nice thin cable with small plug/receptacle)
Speed: CCS (future proof, currently Hyundai can do 800V, 350kW)

We already have one: it's CCS.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Do Tesla EVs run on different electricity than do other EVs?

Yes, the electrons go in opposite directions and often bump into each other.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Do Tesla EVs run on different electricity than do other EVs?

The broader point the poster was making is that people are able to and do buy different ICEVs that require different fuels that you might not be able to get at every gas station. I once went to a "gas" station in New Brunswick that only sold diesel and had to drive a mile down the road to another one that only sold gas.

People care so little about it, that even the article quote forgot about the different nozzles and made a factually incorrect statement.
And the tiresome "All cars should use the same plug" argument forgets about it.

All we actually need is good charging networks. Yes, a single standard would make it easier to get to that point, but no it's not necessary as the diesel v regular v premium at gas stations shows. Currently the best charging is at Tesla's network because the core principles were built right from the start:
- Multiple chargers per location
- Fast
- "Plug and charge", no need for a smartphone or card to operate it.
The one gap is that is there's no credit card reading, but that's because it Tesla -> account -> credit card, which is built into their system.

We already have one: it's CCS.

And that's the key point for this. It's been adopted as the standard, but the government isn't dictating what individual companies can do. All that they're doing is setting _minimum_ requirements for _taxpayer-funded_ chargers. Basically don't require an account, and include a CCS plug and you can get some money (and for main highway chargers they want 4+ 150kW+ plugs).

Tesla has done dual cable before, so if they want Federal money the challenge is just account-free use.

 

[Sophias_dad]

You mean like this...

Yes, like that, except where the rate per kwh is reasonably close to the local rate, not triple the local rate.

 

[Tam]

We already have one: it's CCS.

Sure. Standardization is one thing but implementation is another. It's all over the place in the US: Some with ChaDeMo, some with J1772, some with Tesla, some with CCS...

I guess it's not the standardization but the law that enforces that standard.

 

[ElectricNerd]

I would love to see all of the EV manufacturers standardize on CCS. Tesla does CCS in Europe so they already know how to incorporate that.

 

[bruce4000]

The broader point the poster was making is that people are able to and do buy different ICEVs that require different fuels that you might not be able to get at every gas station. I once went to a "gas" station in New Brunswick that only sold diesel and had to drive a mile down the road to another one that only sold gas.

People care so little about it, that even the article quote forgot about the different nozzles and made a factually incorrect statement.
And the tiresome "All cars should use the same plug" argument forgets about it.

All we actually need is good charging networks. Yes, a single standard would make it easier to get to that point, but no it's not necessary as the diesel v regular v premium at gas stations shows. Currently the best charging is at Tesla's network because the core principles were built right from the start:
- Multiple chargers per location
- Fast
- "Plug and charge", no need for a smartphone or card to operate it.
The one gap is that is there's no credit card reading, but that's because it Tesla -> account -> credit card, which is built into their system.



And that's the key point for this. It's been adopted as the standard, but the government isn't dictating what individual companies can do. All that they're doing is setting _minimum_ requirements for _taxpayer-funded_ chargers. Basically don't require an account, and include a CCS plug and you can get some money (and for main highway chargers they want 4+ 150kW+ plugs).

Tesla has done dual cable before, so if they want Federal money the challenge is just account-free use.

Do Tesla EVs run on different electricity than do other EVs?

my point was is that while it would be nice if all EVs used the exact same connector, port placement etc, that the world has been able to deal with multiple type of fuel at every gas station do not a deal breaker. Reminds me of an old saying, “Standards are such a good thing, everyone should have their own”……

 

[e of pi]

I would love to see all of the EV manufacturers standardize on CCS. Tesla does CCS in Europe so they already know how to incorporate that.

Basically everyone in the US but Tesla has. Nissan's switching over with the Ariya, though annoyingly not yet with the Leaf (though that's only selling like 15k units per year at this point).

 

[Tam]

Basically everyone in the US but Tesla has. Nissan's switching over with the Ariya, though annoyingly not yet with the Leaf (though that's only selling like 15k units per year at this point).

Currently, the Fast-DC-equipped cars on the roads in the US are Tesla.